59: Building a Design Showroom, Vendor Growth, & Work/Life balance with Sara Lynn Brennan (Part 2)

In Episode 59 of the Designer Within Podcast, host John McClain continues his insightful conversation with Sarah Lynn Brennan. They delve deeper into the creation and ongoing success of Sarah's design showroom, 'All Things Home,' located in North Carolina. 

Sarah shares the unplanned journey of opening her showroom, how strategic partnerships played a vital role in its development, and the innovative business model designed to make luxury design accessible. 

The discussion also covers practical advice for interior designers looking to build strong brand partnerships, understanding market needs, and creating diversified revenue streams. 

Tune in for a masterclass in growing your design business and fostering meaningful industry relationships.

00:00 Introduction to The Designer Within Podcast

00:56 Recap and Introduction to Part Two with Sarah Lynn Brennan

02:07 Sarah's Journey to Opening Her Own Showroom

03:44 Building Partnerships and Overcoming Challenges

05:09 Creating Accessible Luxury Design

08:51 Balancing Full-Service and Retail Offerings

18:38 The Importance of Strategic Partnerships

23:32 Masterclass in Growing Your Business

24:22 The Power of In-Person Meetings

24:56 Offering Solutions and Building Relationships

27:26 Deliverables: Physical and Experiential

28:04 Setting Expectations and Milestones

34:57 Balancing Business and Personal Life

38:19 Final Thoughts and Gratitude

MORE ON SARA LYNN BRENNAN:
Website: https://saralynnbrennan.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/saralynnbrennan/

 The Vision 2025: Business Planning Session for Interior Designers is a personalized, two-hour deep dive into your business to reflect on 2024 and strategically plan for a profitable and fulfilling 2025. We’ll analyze your financial performance, project profitability, cash flow, and marketing effectiveness to uncover opportunities for growth and efficiency. 

For all things John: www.johnmcclain.co
For more information on my online Courses & Coaching Program for Interior Designers, visit: https://designsuccessacademy.com/
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Transcript

If you have a process and you execute that process every single time, you know that the end is going to be a fact. It is the product of what happens when you do those things in that order. It should be that simple for you to say, my business is amazing. Here's all the reasons why, and it's not your opinion.

It's a fact because your numbers and your data, all of those things, it's not subjective. I think that's where that power comes from. The confidence of just being able to candidly say, doing something awesome. Are you part of it or not? Cause I'll buy from somebody else. And just say it. Hey y'all. You're listening to the designer within podcast, episode number 59.

Welcome to the designer within podcast, the podcast where business and creativity come together. I'm your host, John McLean. And I created this podcast for my fellow interior designers, but also for creative and innovative minds alike. I've experienced the challenges and celebrated the victories that come with our careers.

And now I'm here to sip and spill the tea with you. There is no sugarcoating here, my friend, just the real deal. We are experts at getting creative for our clients. So let's channel that same energy into our own businesses. It is time to dig deep, reimagine your business and transform your life from the inside out.

It is time to dive into the designer within.

Hey everybody, welcome back to the designer within podcast. I'm your host, John McClane. Very, very happy to have you here for some learning and fun today. If you missed last week's episode with Sarah Lynn Brennan, go back, do yourself a favor and listen to that wonderful episode. Sarah is just a true delight.

And as I said on that episode, there was just so much information that Sarah packed into it, that I decided to divide this interview into two parts. And if you thought part one was packed with insights and inspo, you are in for a treat with part two, because today we continue my conversation, and we're going to dive deeper into the challenges and the triumphs of running a design showroom that she started.

All things home, a beautiful, beautiful showroom in North Carolina. And we're also going to explore the importance of partnerships in the design world, very interesting, and get some master class level advice on how to grow your design business. Sarah is here to share her unfiltered experiences. Candid advice and professional wisdom.

So get ready to take some notes and be inspired with part two of my interview with Sarah Lynn Brennan. Let's get started. Now you have done something that a lot of people aspire to do, which is open your own showroom. And I think that a lot of people either think that they want to start out doing that or maybe do that later.

But tell me how that journey happened for you. Why you decided to open your own showroom. And then we can talk about all of the logistical things behind that. I love that you did it. And it's beautiful, by the way, if anybody has not seen it, please go to her Instagram page and check it. It's absolutely gorgeous.

What you did there. Well, and we sell your coffee table book in there too. Oh my God. I love it more. But yeah, I ran up to you at KBiz. I was like, we sell your book. It's funny because I don't know that this was ever on my checklist of dreams of like owning the showroom. I think. What I created, if I had a dream of the showroom, is What I would have so I don't feel like I veered or anything like that I just don't know that it was ever on the list the bucket list of like own a showroom So what happened was we are in like I'm in a really tiny area just south of Charlotte and there is no retail here They're very very protective of the land because everyone's building everywhere around here And so there's no retail at all and I wanted to stay really close to my kids school so basically I have my offices upstairs and then around the corner and downstairs is retail frontage.

Space became available. And I was like, this is never going to happen again, probably within the next five or 10 years. So if I'm going to do it, I've got to do it now. It wasn't exactly the perfect and right timing, but I was like, let's go for it. So I jumped in, decided to basically take the place down to the studs.

And I really tapped into a lot of partnerships to rebuild it. So. We partnered with Cambria countertops. We partnered with Wellborn cabinets. We partnered with Sunbrella drapery fabric. We were the first interior design firm to carry their drapery line that they just launched last year. They mostly went to big workrooms where commercial workroom type.

So we were the first, I think we might still be, but I'm not sure. We use certain wallpaper vendors and, uh, Kohler was a huge contributor. And so we just were like, this is what we do all the time. And we never have a way, like, I always wanted to invite clients over to my house or like a different client's house so I could show them our work.

And so this was a way for us to show clients what we do and give them the ability to open up the drawers and sit on the sofa and not feel like they're intruding on somebody else's house. But then it also gave people who had no idea who we are or what we do a place to walk by and be like, What is that?

And stop in and learn about us. One of my main goals for this space is I used to be a middle school science teacher. And I know that they don't make a lot of money. I aspired to own restoration hardware type sofas. Even though I didn't have a lot of money when I was teaching, I still wanted all the nice things, but my career didn't put me in a place that allowed for that.

And so with what we have here in Weddington, we wanted to create a place where you could walk in and get really beautiful luxury interior design pieces. It's a price point and in a way that didn't make you have to have a designer. We are trying to give access to the trades people of the world who are out there doing the amazing things, the teachers and the people who are working in factories and the people who are having to go to Ashley Home Store or different places and buy inferior furnishings pieces that don't last, that don't hold up.

And create a, a similar price point for them to come in and buy it without a designer, but selected by a designer. So, that's kind of what we're building off of is, is that outreach to be able to allow for people to have trade pieces in their home without a luxury design service necessarily attached to it.

I'm really in alignment with our upholstery company that we use. I'm really in alignment with their owner's mindset. She's like, I'm just really tired of selling rich people, beautiful sofas. She's like, I just want everybody to have a good, constructed, really beautiful fabric sofa in their home. That if the kids jump on it, it's not going to break.

There's a lot of layers to why we did this. Not a lot of resources here in our area, so we wanted to be a place, if the store is called All Things Home, and it really is a place you can go to for all things home as a resource. As people walk in and say, do you guys know any good plumbers? And we ship out the name of the plumbers we know, because it helps build everybody.

We've had three or four different really big projects come from somebody dropping their dog off at the pet salon and saying, what the heck is this place? And they come in and they filled out our inquiry form and saw the kitchen. And now we're building them a kitchen. So. We're at the very beginning stages of it where we opened in March.

I thought we'd be a little bit more of a merchandise y type of a store, but we're not. We, we ordered a ton of inventory. We have cutting boards and accents and decor, blankets, bedding. We have all of that stuff, but that's not what moves on a day to day basis. So we're basically selling our services and this is a visual catalog, physical catalog you can actually walk into.

And so that's kind of where we're at that call me back in a year and I might be somewhere totally different with it, but that's what we have capacity for. And that's where we're going to take this. And so we're basically going to have events for real estate agents, builders, and people to come in and some small builders don't have a showroom.

They don't have any way to help their clients who they're building for make selections. So we could use it for that. Really kind of just testing out what that's going to be. But. So far, it's been a really great physical catalog, billboard that you can walk in and touch, and Experience, and then you call us and then we make it happen.

I love it. I love that you knew that there was a need for this niche in your area. Cause in the back of your mind, you obviously knew that this needed to be there. And then the opportunity arose, you took advantage. And as well as ID, there's never a perfect time for anything. You just have to kind of take the bull by the horn to do it.

And you did that. I agree with you. I, I, I think that design should be assessable in some way to everybody. And I think that's why. I wrote a book called The Designer Within to help people figure out, like, I always say I wrote my book to my 12 year old self because I, as a 12 year old, I wanted to design. I love design.

Did you find that when you decided to kind of create this dichotomy, if you will, of your store, is it a lot different than your ideal client now? And is it, is it serving two different people or are they overlapping at all? I think that was the struggle in the beginning is how do we create a retail service that doesn't undermine and undercut what we're doing upstairs because we have.

Same building upstairs and downstairs. And the truth of the matter is that as people would come in and learn about what we do, we just aren't for the person who doesn't want luxury pieces. We're not for them. Your design services, you mean? Yes. Yep. So what we've done is we've watered down our full service into another service.

That's kind of an express version of that. And you can access that through the showroom. And so that way, when we're telling our own clients, you're not a good fit for us. We actually refer them to ourselves. So we kind of knocked off what we're not for on a full service level. We send them downstairs and they can experience our brand in a different way.

Now you can walk into the showroom and say, I love this sofa. I need it in 88 inches. I would like to buy it in this fabric. We can absolutely do that. You don't have to have design services. And in a similar way, if you go into Ashley, you're like, I like this. So if I'm going to buy this, the Ashley home store, so, or like pottery barn, it was a way to not make people feel like they only had one or two options when it came to buying.

Like you don't have to go to the big box stores. You can still come to a shop like ours and pick out a piece. But then we also understand that people can't really do that. And so we watered down a service that we created so that when it wasn't a good fit on full service luxury, we had a backup option and that was for a different service that we offer within ourselves.

We don't lead with that at SLB because we're full service luxury. That's what people come to us for. But the showroom kind of gives them a different opportunity to create a design with our firm, just in a different way. That's so smart. It's like the value ladder of what you offer to clients, right? So they get, they still get Sarah Lynn Brennan design, but in this little format that you've sort of catered to them based upon what their needs are financially, I'm assuming, and also what their needs are on a bigger scale.

Maybe they just need a sofa or they just need a coffee table. Whatever, but you found a way to create another revenue stream. And I think so many times designers get focused on this is all I can do. I only have to do quote full service design when sometimes, by the way, they don't even know what full service design entails, right?

They just say that and they don't even know what they're offering to people. I love that you can now filter your people into other areas and offer them something totally different. You are so fortunate to have a retail store. People don't have to have a retail store necessarily. To do that, right? They could offer another service or another way to give people the feel of that design style that you have.

I love that you have the store there or the showroom to do that. And I'm sure that it's working very well for that type of a demographic who doesn't want to pay for, can't afford, or just doesn't want to get involved in a full service project. Yeah. It's kind of like, I'm really bad with cars, but like, you know how there's like car, like Acura is really, I think, a Honda.

I do know that part. Like something along those lines. So if you're going to do this, I think you have to have almost like a secondary brand to kick to, because if my full service has an option that's so drastically different than what I do every day, why wouldn't everyone just pick that? Like you really have to figure out what is the distinction and you really have to be able to say like, no, we won't style for you.

So. With our full service, we will style, we will do bookcases, we will run your errands, we will run around town crazy, just like making sure you're happy with everything. Soup to nuts. But with our other service, which we call Foundations, we're only responsible for the foundation pieces of that room. So, it would be in a living room, the sofa, the rug, the coffee table, the window treatments.

And possibly like a light fixture. Those are the things you need to sit down and actually have a room. Everything else is accents and decor that it takes a lot of time, energy, and effort. And then we get a lot less personal with you on a foundations project. Cause we're really just trying to get those core pieces in the room and it's faster.

So it's four weeks instead of eight weeks. And we use quick ship options. Um, that, so it is so drastically different. Then what we do, but the insides are kind of the same, if that makes sense. So similar vendors, similar, even fabrics and product lines, but the presentation and the end product looks drastically different.

And it's actually really hard for our design team, even though business wise, there are two separate things. Behind the scenes, we're all the same crew. Right. And so it's really hard for us to do a foundations install cause it's so bare bones. And so we don't photograph those ones because, and the client knows it.

Like they're not expecting an SLB when they hire foundations. Like it's a distinction, but we've had to work really hard. To make sure that they know the difference and that effort and the energy. And it's not just a price difference. And we do the same thing for less. It's not that. So that's been the hard part of having that store that was not exactly an SLB store.

It was a product of. We're still working it out. I think it's great to have other options. And I know that it's going to lead, if it hasn't already, to bigger projects. You're going to do one little thing and then suddenly they're going to be like, Oh my God, no, no, I need you to do the whole house now, or three other rooms.

I had a retail store in the past as well, showroom kind of a thing. And it was a great calling card for your business. And then you plant those little seeds and then suddenly they're like, Oh my God, this is beautiful. And you're like, well, if you only knew what I could do, if you upgraded to the other service, because in your head, like you said, you're like, Oh God, that console table needs like four more accessories on it, but it's hard because you're not going to probably convert like an Ikea or Target type of client, just because they walk in your showroom and appreciate it.

They're not going to convert. Right. So like, you still need that ideal client to walk in to your showroom to understand and get that eventually, because when they shop retail, they're coming in for a quick purchase, a quick fix. When you call a design firm, you're calling for a service. That's like a longer term relationship.

So I think when they come into a shop, they're looking for that retail therapy hit of like that little bit of a high immediately, they don't know that they're walking in for a service. And so it, it is a conversion in their brain of like, wait a minute. We have seen people come in back in April and they're just coming back now because life got crazy or they were thinking about it and then their husband had to get on board or he just got his bonus and now they're ready.

We don't even know they're thinking about us. And so that's kind of the weird thing is like you're not, and I would caution like it is not a huge money maker on a day-to-day basis. And I always wondered like gift shop would be so fun to own and like you'd buy all the inventory. It takes so much time, it's so expensive.

Shipping, you can't in in interior design, you can charge for shipping. 'cause like you can explain it that way, right? Yeah. When you're selling retail, people are like, MSRP is 25 bucks. Whether that includes shipping or not, that's like, that's what it's the max you can sell it for. So people don't care about the fact you have to sell in volume on a retail level to make nearly what you're going to make.

And I remember our grand opening week, we sold like a couple thousand dollars in the first couple of days. And I was like, guys, this is great. But also like, this feels really weird. Cause we're used to like big ticket invoices. I was like. This is not exciting to me. This is, I don't know if I'm going to be able to do this.

And now we sell a couple hundred dollars a day sometimes, and that's it. But we're waiting for that next whale project to walk in. So I was really, I was really surprised. We sell, we have a lot of candles down there. We have a lot of things that I would go in and buy from a store. But people don't, they're not flying off the shelves.

So I, I wanted to be transparent about that part because I don't want people to think we're over here getting rich off of our showroom because we're not, it's, it's a conversion factor. Yeah, definitely. And in the end, it does lead to other things down the road and you're just six months or so in, so give it a little more time and you'll see it evolve even more.

I remember I had a chair that I did a custom chair and I set it out in the front of my store and the client bought it. And said, Oh, can you bring this to my house? And I'm like, well, I'm the only one here, but okay. Let's just throw it in the back of my car and head over. So I go to her house. She said, well, where do you think it should go?

And I put it in the corner where I thought it should go with a little table that she had, and she was like, I hate this sofa. What would you do? And I'm like, well, I would do this. And then that little 2, 000 chair or whatever she bought for me ended up turning into her whole entire house. Because. I could have easily said, no, I'm not going to drive that chair to your house.

You put it in your own car. But I knew what type of client that it was. And you're right. I thought we would sell more candles. I thought we would sell more picture frames, all the things. And then suddenly it was like, no, the people who are coming in for that are unfortunately an entirely different breed of thing.

People who are coming in for the bigger ticket items and even they'll come in for a 50 candle and ask, can you give me the Labor Day sale? And it's Christmas. Right? And so you're like, no, so get ready for that. Uh, but I like how you differentiate than the fact that it is a different. Business model and that business model is an entirely different entity, but as a designer, it does just like.

Worked so well, you're not just someone who said, Oh, I wanted to do a retail store and you, you don't have a design business to kind of play off of one another and back each other up. They do play off of one another and being a different business that also involves different ways to get that business going.

And I know you're big on partnerships with the people you mentioned, the brands that are in your showroom, but talk to me about the importance of partnerships in your design business and especially in your showroom and retail store. Yeah, I think that they're really important. And I think. I was listening to another episode of yours recently about buying power and just not dabbling too shallow in any particular aesthetic or brand, because you wanted that deeper dive so you can get the best pricing and that's huge for us.

I may love a brand, but if we don't have the profitability, then we don't use it. And that doesn't stop me from at market, going into them every single time and saying, can I get stocking dealer yet? This is what we're doing with your competitor. Can I transition with you? Will you give me a chance? And that's how I got my very best upholstery brand that we have now.

It's just because I kept going in and saying, are you okay with me giving Bernhardt and this other, all these people, the upholstery, like this is what we do. And then finally they got so tired of hearing from us, but now we built a showroom and we've built in a lot of different ways that our people that we work with can buy their product.

And so I'm not afraid to continue to ask, like, Hey, I've got this idea and I really see your brand working with it. But I think that when you get in those moments where you you've over promised or maybe you've dropped a ball, then you can call one of those partners of yours and say, I really screwed up.

I know that, you know, I'm a standup person. I would never do this, but I just ordered that soap in the wrong fabric and it shipped today. And that's not your fault, but what can you do to help fix this? Because I'm going to have a really ticked off client. And nine times out of 10, if you know them and you've been a good Client to them, they will help you out.

And so that's what we saw with the showroom. That's what we've seen in joint marketing efforts. It's nice to be able to say, I use your product all the time. Would you ever want to host an event with me? To showcase our work and talk about ways that you could work with us. Cause if I sell your products and I get people through my door, then you're going to benefit as well.

So I've done that a lot with Sunbrella, Cambria, Kohler, and then some local vendors too. And I just think it makes it more of that team effort. I love sports. I played sports and I don't want to be a team of just me. I don't want to be the captain of my team where everyone's always looking to only me. For ideas and advice.

Like I, we're very much like, who could we tap into that would be really good at this? Or who could we tap into that would be able to knock this out of the park? And, and I know it's not always me. So whether that's within our own team or external team members that we have, those partnerships just help so much, I think.

Do you have any tips for people who don't have a showroom or don't have a need for a showroom or. Maybe they don't have a huge buying power with a brand, but they have some buying power. Do you have any advice for people who are like, I really, really love this brand. Yes, I'm not on their highest tier of trade pricing, but I really see myself going there.

What do you suggest they do to nurture that relationship, to build that relationship, to grow it and foster it to where you are now? What we did, and I still do it, is we keep track of, let's say I have to buy, this, this is something we do all the time, picture frames. There's not a good trade vendor that I'm aware of, for, of like, just simple, basic, not over the top, not 10, 000, just nice picture frames.

And so we keep track of how much we buy from like Crate and Barrel, Pottery Barn and different places. And so we know that we do X amount of thousands of dollars a year in picture frames that we're buying retail. That's like a really bad category for us when you look at profitability. So when I go to market this next round, our goal is to find a picture frame vendor that has the type of frame we like, but on a wholesale level.

So then we can go up to that vendor and we're like, Hey, we spend, I don't know, making this up 10, 000 a year on picture frames. And we would like that to be thighs and then charged in dollars. So I think like really understanding where your weaknesses are. And if you're somebody who's not sourcing trade yet, meaning you have wholesale accounts that are meant to be to the trade.

Then I would start with the simple ones like Uttermost and some of those entry level ones for hands and then start to keep track of What you're spending in other categories So if you're having to buy all of your upholstery from a retail source locally because they give you 10 percent off You're going to want to buy your upholstery for a lot less than 10 or 20, whatever the designer discount is.

You're going to want that as your business grows. So keep track of how much your sales are in certain categories so that when you do go to market, you have some leverage and you can say, Hey, I spend X amount of money. I could do it with you or I could not. Are you interested? And sometimes they'll say, sorry, we need 10, 000 opening order.

And then you're like, that's not going to be me. Bye. Maybe if you're close, they'll throw you a bone. I think knowing your own struggles before you go to market and you're equipped to say, Hey, my top line is this profitability is this, I'd like to improve it in this category. You guys can help me do that.

I project my business is going to grow 20 percent in the next year. Based on current pipeline, like, would you be open to working with a growing business like mine? And why would they say no? They're not doing anything for you that's going to cost them money. They're just allowing you to buy at a lesser opening order.

You just, you can't make the shots you don't take. Very good advice. This is like Masterclass 101 and growing your business. I do feel that it is better to go deeper with certain brands that you really do want to get that relationship going instead of scattering yourself so thin. The other part of that that I love is that you said, go to market and you said, meet with them in person.

And you said, tell your story. And you were talking about, I see a growth plan. And so if you go to them in person, always helps, right? Meet your rep in person. And sometimes at a market, you can meet the owner of the company in person. You never know. Yeah. And you can sell them on it. So I think a lot of designers don't, I've, I've talked to so many who were like, I've never been to a market.

I've never. I've never. Talk to my rep. I don't even know if I have a rep. And it's like those in person meetings, or even if they're casual, can really turn into something substantial for you. But also important to that is that you come to them with a solution to their problem as well. Don't just ask for something for yourself.

What you said was. I see a growth plan. I'm going to sell this much. My company's going to go here. I can make you my exclusive dealer for picture frames or whatever. We can grow together. And I think that that's important too, for them to know that they're getting something out of it. Right? Yeah, for sure.

Nobody's going to give you anything, right? You've got to do the work for it. It kind of goes back to like that whole therapy and just the confidence and Instagram and all of the things. It's going to take courage to walk into a showroom and be like, I'm awesome. You should want to be part of this. Like To a vendor and, and you're doing the same thing to a client, but just saying it in a different way.

What I'm building here is really wonderful. If you're nervous that it's not, or if you're like still trying to figure out if it is, then that's gonna be a harder conversation. I always tell my kids 2 plus 2 is 4 is super easy because you know it. It's a fact. You've seen it work. You've counted two M& Ms and then two more and it's four every single time.

If you have a process and you execute that process every single time, you know that the end is going to be a fact. It is the product of what happens when you do those things in that order. It should be that simple for you to say, My business is amazing. Here's all the reasons why. And it's a fact. It's not your opinion.

It's a fact because your numbers and your data, all of those things, it's not subjective. And I think that's where that power comes from, the confidence of just being able to candidly say, I'm doing something awesome. Are you part of it or not? Because I'll buy from somebody else and just say it. And even for new businesses who don't really know who they are yet, show it until you know it, like show it and show what you want to be until you know it deep down in your heart.

That, that is the truth because you are fabulous and you do have a lot to offer. It's just letting the world know about it. And that comes down to vendors and partnerships as well. And then, and then those can lead to licensing deals down the road. They can lead to a complete branding that you do ambassadorships, whatever.

And so it leads to a lot of things. If you always put your best foot forward, I just, I love it. You are so big on deliverables. I'm so big on deliverables. I think that having those deliverables to people, showing them what they're going to get. For working with you, partnering with you, hiring you as a designer is critical.

I don't know, we've gone over time a lot, but I just love this conversation. But can you just touch on deliverables and how important that is? How important are deliverables to you in your process? I think there's like the physical deliverables and then there's the experience deliverables. So the physical, I think it's really important they're defined.

It's like a milestone. So when you, you've arrived and when you're no longer there. Because that helps to set expectations of like, I'm going to take your input up until this milestone and after that I would like you to unsubscribe from every influence that's going to deter you from anything other than what I'm presenting to you.

No more Pinterest, no more catalogs, no more Pottery Barn, no more none of it. And so I think that when you've arrived at each one of those, there's expectations of what they're going to get. And then they can look forward to that next step. So for us, it's when we kick off a project, that's a milestone meeting.

I need you there. We're going to do an idea session and we're going to look through and get inspiration together. Then I'm going to have a design concept meeting and I need you there for that one. That meeting is going to be ideas and a little bit of a collaboration, but we're still kind of guiding you.

Design plan is the actual design plan where we've together made selections based off of your feedback. Based off of what you said in the idea session, functionality, goals, all the things, this is that. And once we've passed that point, you are expected to buy. That is going to be about eight to ten weeks into the process.

So if you need to move money from your financial planner, you're gonna do that at week seven or eight. You are not gonna tell me at Design Plan that it's gonna take six days for your money to transfer from this account to that account because I already reminded you two weeks ago to do that. But no, no, no.

We are not waiting for your money to arrive. You have an Amex, but you're gonna use it today and we'll pay yourself back. It's all of the pain points. Every single time we're like, okay, that's not happening again. How do we make sure that that question doesn't come up? And so I think it's just. We literally have like a roadmap and we explain it to the client.

It, it's like a line and it's that timeline tally marks of when certain things are going to happen. We define it and then we explain that meeting below and what it entails. And that way, and then I also say you get a total of three revisions throughout the whole process and that's it. So if we do all three revisions in the concept round, then we're going to nail the design plan round because we revised so many times back here.

We're going to nail it here. We're done. If we don't nail it here, you gave me crappy feedback. We're too good to not do what you said because we do it all the time and we have successful people who have gone through our process without any complaints, without any revisions. So if I'm over here using all my revisions on, on this round.

And we're here and we're still not like super thrilled. There's something wrong. So we're going to pause. We're going to talk about what's wrong because by here we should be good. I think just having that explanation up front with them sets the tone of like, this is our process, this is how we know how to do it, this is how I can predict that end product.

Um, and then of course there's the non tangible deliverables, which is, I'm scared, I have a question, can we talk? And I'm willing to pick up the phone and not make them feel like an idiot. And showing up when I, I don't need to, or sending them a Friday update that says, I saw Dolly Parton and it made me think of you, John, like all those little things that like you hear that make it real and or they just had a baby and you send them the flowers and the little onesie and all the things that like make it special for them.

So I think that there is this powerful combination between I am a boss, right? Like I am, I am in charge of what we're doing here and that's what you've paid me to do. But I'm, I'm a person and I, I feel you as a human and I want you to be happy. And, and they have to kind of speak to each other because you can't walk the walk without doing the other.

Yeah, and not only does it build relationships with all that you described, but it is, it builds a better process for you, process for them, the outcome is smoother. And I think it takes a minute. I'm sure Sarah Lynn Brennan back in the first days was not like, you're going to do this today. All right. I'm sure.

Was she that way then? Or was she a little different? No, because I was the one that was like, what are you reading? Two weeks? I like, I don't have two weeks. And, like, everything I sourced was, like, severely low stock. So, by the time two weeks comes around, uh, everything's gone. So, and that's where those come from, is And that's why it's like, it's good to make those mistakes.

When your risk is low, then scraping your knee doesn't hurt as bad when you're five is when you're 50, right? It's like that fall when you're 50 hurts a lot more and you probably damage other things on the way down. That's those low level risks when you're new. You don't, you think it's big, but it's not like it will be, it'll keep building.

And so you'd rather have those hard conversations when it feels hard in the beginning, because then you're going to be able to perfect that more and more. You're always be glad you did it. You'll always be glad you have the hard conversation. You'll feel better. You'll feel lighter. You'll have learned something.

If the client fires you, I mean, you know, Who cares? Just go find another one. And I know, I know what that feels like. I mean, I've been in lawsuits before. I've been bottom of the barrel feeling really crappy about business and life, but I just, I knew I was going to figure it out and I knew I would be able to learn from it and bounce back.

And aha, but just a couple of weeks ago, I mean, it was, we had, we had our pipeline like went to crap and I was like, Oh my God, this has never happened where everyone kind of paused at the same time. But literally just prayed about it, kept posting, kept telling people we had openings, that we're still here, we're still working.

And literally since then, I've had like six incredible inquiries. So you just can't give up. That's, that's really what it comes down to. That's it. You, you said something during Luann's conference that she had, Luann Live. I think it was something to the effect, and correct me if I'm wrong, it was something to the effect of, don't quit, just pause?

Is that what you said? I remember it being so like, like, ah, a moment. Tell me what you said there and what, what that meant to you. I don't, I actually don't think that was me. I think I might have said it, but I was referencing one of the other gals who said it. Oh, okay. They said, yes, don't quit, just pause.

And that's a commitment. That's, that's a big statement to decide to give it all up. And I don't think that should ever come out of a time of like, True emotional state quitting or deciding to shut something down should be a long term decision It could be a really great thing that you decide to do but pausing is totally fine.

Crying is totally fine That's why you have the team. That's why you have your partners You can literally call it your partners who might you real estate agent who might be a vendor and say do you know any? Builders who need help right now Do you have any clients you've talked to that could use a consult?

It doesn't have to be a home run. Here I am with my sports again, but my son plays baseball and when there's bases loaded, everyone wants to be the hero and hit the grand slam. A single is fine and they still can be the hero in that moment. So I think that we get lost in just our own selves of like, what does this mean for my identity?

What does this mean for me? If I look like I'm doing that, or I look like I don't know what I'm talking about. It means you're real. Yeah. It means that like you're just like everybody else and they will actually like you more because of it And that's just kind of the way I've always so maybe I shared too much But it's me like my love language is talking I think being in a rush forces you to possibly take on a project that you should have remember the life slows down when you take a minute like I Probably should have taken a minute instead of been like yes, let's do it and now sign this and But I look back on some of the things I, like, didn't do because of work, I'm like, I'm stupid.

Like, I, take more vacations and, and do things. Like, people will be fine if you're not there. You should have a team that can operate without you running and orchestrating everything. So that's my goal in the next phase of everything is just to get more focused on that and know that it is a job. And if I worked at Starbucks or anywhere else, I could get laid off at any minute.

I think as an entrepreneur, you have so much ownership over the business and the success of it. And then you've almost have an identity in it. So I think that that's what I want to really teach my clients too, is like. I'm a wonderful team. I'm not doing it all. And I don't want you to think I am because I haven't picked up a pencil and drawn in years, but you, my name's on the door.

So you think I do and really teaching them that side of it too. So yeah, I think that there's obviously like mistakes and, Oh, I didn't order debris for project one time. That was funny. Just like, or I priced something incredibly incorrect and the client caught it, and then I looked like an idiot. But nobody would judge you for any of those.

It's like, we've all done it. So, yes, there's the mistakes and the things that you learn from, but for me, it's like, not a regret at all. But when I look back, I'm like, the next phase I do this, I want to, I want to flip it a little bit and focus more on family. And the journey then like actually getting there.

Cause I feel like I'm there, but I don't know where I'm at. You know what I mean? Yeah. Like what? Yeah. So hopefully that makes sense and resonates with somebody. Cause it's hard to articulate stuff like that. It does. I think it just comes down to you're getting to the point now where you, you're having a more holistic view of what you're doing as a business owner and as a business itself.

And we all get to that point where we're like, I don't like doing this, or I'm not good at this, or I don't ever want to do that again. Let me bring a team member in to do that or outsource it to someone else. And you don't have to do it all. And when you try to do it all is when you let go of the things that really matter to you, like family, like.

Like running over to the movies, like taking the weekend off to actually have a weekend with yourself and with your friends and family. And ambition can overtake that easily sometimes if we let it. And I don't think it's ever, it's in my opinion, it's never been worth it to get more money. In exchange for losing my sanity or in exchange for.

You know, losing some, some peace of mind, free time at night with my husband. Like I want that. I need that. And we all need that. And when we take a breath and just say, okay, no one's dying. Like if I don't take that project, my house isn't going to be foreclosed or this isn't going to happen. Right. There's always a worst case scenario.

And I think if we just kind of avoid like going there in our minds, we'll be fine. And we can just look at that holistic overarching view of ourselves and our lives. And know that we're okay. Know that we're good. Right? Yes. A hundred percent. It's, it's not that big of a deal. Right. But if you don't break it is, it really does.

And especially in that people pleasing phase of the design business where, where everything's moving really fast. It just doesn't feel like that's an option. And, and that's, that's what I would have wished I would have considered. But. All good. We're good. We're cruising along here and just trying to figure it out as we go.

I think everyone's doing that. That's it. Well, and speaking of giving yourself time for family, I need to let you go so you can actually spend time with your family tonight, but I can't even tell you. I knew I would love this conversation. I knew that my listeners would love this conversation. I adore you.

I think what you've done is just amazing. You're an aspiration to so many people. And even if they just take one little thing from what you said today, which there were so many good nuggets in there. And apply it. If I take, just take one thing and apply it to their business, it's going to help them out.

So first of all, thank you for dropping all this wisdom on us today. It is fantastic. But secondly, tell everybody where they can go to find you and learn about your design business, your retail store, your showroom, all that fun stuff. Awesome. Well, thank you for having me. This has been so great. And every time we talk, I mean, we really barely know each other, but we always connect like really, really, really quick.

So, SarahLynnBrennan. com, there's no H in Sarah, so S A R A, SarahLynnBrennan. com, that's where everything is. So, we just got a brand new website, we just rebranded, all things home, our showroom is a tab on that page, and you can kind of just see the different ways to buy with us, uh, our bread and butter is full service luxury.

And new construction, renovations, all, all of the things. Um, so I, I really think that that's the main destination trying to be more accurate and more in tune with Instagram lately and just showing up more. But it gets to be the end of the day and I'm like, again, I didn't do it again. Oh, it's so frustrating.

Cause I truly have intent and walk in and somebody asked me a question and that takes the hour I was going to put towards marketing. But. Well, we started the world as an ending, so we're all good. Exactly. So I'm trying to be okay with it, but now it's like a year that I've been okay with it. So that's.

Yeah. Yeah. I gotta find a happy medium. Yeah. You're an open book. You really are. And I value that in you. Yeah. We'll put all the information in the show notes where people can find you. And, and by the way, if you, if they see you at market, just come up and say, hi, hi, Sarah, I heard you on the podcast. Right.

Yes. Awesome. Well, Sarah, thank you again. This has been a true joy, a true delight for me, for my listeners and everybody involved. So thank you again for just sharing all of your information and just for being you and for being so open and honest about everything, you're just a true asset to the design community.

Well, thank you for having this show and a platform to talk like this on. Like you said, in the beginning, Luann created something amazing that got everybody talking, but. It's all the side conversations and all of these shows like yours that allow that conversation to keep going and I'm just so grateful that you do what you do and you're willing to coach and help other people because You paved the way and it makes it easier if you teach others and they don't have to make the same mistakes that you or we did.

Yeah, we all do our part. So thank you, Sarah. I hope to see you very soon. And you're a big old hug. I'll be ready for it. All right. Thanks, John. Thanks Sarah. Thanks for sticking with me to the end of the Designer Within podcast. It means the world to me. If you're ready to dive deeper into the topics that we've discussed here, be sure to check out my online coaching and courses program, design success academy.

com. Here I will teach you everything you need to know to run your interior design business from starting the project. All the way to the end, including marketing and pricing your services for profit. And for more information on this podcast, including how to be a guest or my design services in general, go to johnmcclain.

co. That's johnmcclain. co. See you soon, friend.