54: Transform Your Design Business Sustainably & Profitably with Carter Averbeck

In this episode of 'The Designer Within' podcast, host John McClain discusses sustainable practices in interior design with Carter Averbeck of Omforme Design.

Carter shares his journey to sustainability, how the industry has evolved, and practical steps for integrating eco-friendly practices into design businesses. He emphasizes transparency with clients, the growing demand from younger generations, and the innovative use of secondary markets.

The conversation also touches on the importance of historical restoration and overcoming misconceptions about sustainability. Carter offers valuable tips for designers looking to start sustainable practices, showcasing the ways smaller steps can make significant impacts.


00:00 Introduction to Sustainable Design
00:56 Welcome to The Designer Within Podcast
01:53 Interview with Carter Averbeck: Sustainability in Design
04:06 Carter's Journey into Design
10:45 The Importance of Quality in Sustainable Furniture
13:20 Client Education and Sustainable Practices
14:14 Navigating Supply Chain Issues with Sustainability
30:09 Historic Restoration and Sustainability
36:18 Exploring Sustainable Interior Design
36:54 Getting Started with Sustainability
37:35 Practical Tips for Sustainable Design
40:02 Industry Trends and Challenges
43:12 Innovative Buyback Programs
45:41 Repurposing and Reselling Strategies
56:21 The Importance of Trade Knowledge
01:02:40 Exciting New Projects and Future Plans
01:05:57 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

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https://omformedesign.com/

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Transcript

Much of my business is about being transparent. I will tell new clients from the very beginning that I will be pulling from the secondary market. and when we need to pull from primary market, we can do that too. I mean, you can't do an entire project entirely with sustainable products or from the secondary market.
But we are inching towards that the sustainable industry has taken root. It's growing.
We have a lot to catch up to because we have a primary industry that has Been around for a couple of centuries at this point, and they've trained us to throw out old and buy new, but now we've got generations coming up under me, which is millennials and definitely Gen Z who are swinging that pendulum back completely 
Hey y'all. You're listening to the designer within podcast episode number 54.
Welcome to the designer within podcast, the podcast where business and creativity come together. I'm your host, John McClain, and I created this podcast for my fellow interior designers, but also for creative and innovative minds alike. I've experienced the challenges and celebrated the victories that come with our careers.
And now I'm here to sip and spill the tea with you. There is no sugarcoating here, my friend, just the real deal. We are experts at getting creative for our clients. So let's channel that same energy into our own businesses. It is time to dig deep, re imagine your business, and transform your life from the inside out.
It is time to dive into The Designer Within. 
Hey everybody. Welcome back to another episode of the designer within. . We have a wonderful episode today.
We are talking with Carter Averbeck and he is with Omformme design. And the whole topic of this conversation is sustainability and the interesting and innovative ways. that Carter has worked sustainable practices into his business. And if you've ever considered trying to be more sustainable with your business model, confused about how you might do that and ways that you can simply integrate that into your business, Carter is going to pull back the curtain.
And we have a great conversation about the fact that it is not that complicated and it's not that much of a far reaching effort. To bring sustainability and he mentions ways that we can do it in small ways in big ways and in a consistent way So I know you're going to find this interview interesting even if you are bringing sustainable practices into your business now, whether it's through antiques or whether it's through repurposing pieces, I know you're going to find this episode so handy and so informative that you can implement a lot of the things that Carter is going to mention to you today.
So for everyone, including myself, who has ever considered or may have sustainable design incorporated as part of their business, you are going to really love this episode. let me tell you just a little bit about Carter. Carter Averbeck is the founder of Om Form Design in Minneapolis, Minnesota.
It's a leading full service design renovation, furniture, decor, and more. So sit back, relax, and enjoy my interview with Carter from Omniform Design.
 
Carter, I want to welcome you to the designer within podcast.
Thank you. It's a pleasure to be here.
I'm happy to have you here. I love this topic. And I think that it is always something that we should learn more about and educate ourselves on, especially from someone like you who practices it every day, which is sustainability. And I think that it is maybe possibly a misunderstood term, possibly something that a lot of people don't know.
What it actually means and all the different levels of it. And I feel like sometimes vendors put different terms on it than designers put on it. And so I just can't wait to dive into this whole topic of sustainability, how you've worked it into your business and what it means to you. So let's just start there.
Like, tell me how you got into the business of design. And I think as most people find it, it's not the traditional route necessarily. Right.
Well, no, I actually kind of grew up in it in a sense that my family was that classic family that would buy the worst house in the best neighborhood and we would fix it up, in essence, flipping it way back when, I'm not going to tell you my age, but way back when. And it taught me so much about, the potential that older buildings have, the potential that design has, and the potential of transforming older things into something spectacular. My mother and I would pore over magazines like Better Homes and Gardens and Architectural Digest and all of these high end magazines, and we were like, Okay, how do we create that? How do we spin gold from the hay that we have here and, and make it all happen? And so that was my training growing up, whether I wanted it or not. 
I find that interesting because I, too, had a similar situation where, not as My family really didn't flip houses. They built homes and then we started flipping houses a little bit later where we would buy a historic home and renovate it. But when you said your mother, that, that struck a chord with me because I remember going to thrift stores and flea markets and looking for the worst looking antique or chair or, Any type of item in the place because we knew we were going to spend the next, four weeks on the weekends working on that thing.
And I, and as an eight year old, nine year old, 10 year old kid, I was there with my mom. And it sounds like that was your boots on the ground training as well. Do you feel like it was instilled in you, but also probably just a part of you as well, right? Even from a younger age.
absolutely. I mean, my, my parents realized the creative streak in me when I started drawing and painting at a very young age. And so, they're very adept and very aware of all of us siblings and, and our our abilities and our talents that we each had. For me, it was definitely being creative and trying to make something out of nothing.
Love that. Love that. And so as you got older and you decided to move into turning this into a career, what did that pathway look like for you when you decided to say, okay, yes, I know I love doing these things. Let me now figure out how to make this into a career that I can actually make a profit from and also love sidebar.
Sure.
Well, first of all, I actually went into a different career and that was being a professional artist. So I got my fine arts degree. I got a scholarship to go over to Europe and I studied under a fresco master in Barcelona, Spain. learned all kinds of techniques where, in today's era, you would go, who would ever use these techniques?
They're centuries old. But then I came back to the United States and it turns out there's a lot of historical buildings around here who needed help. And that's where I applied a lot of my artistic sort of skills, skill set within doing fresco work and mural work and decorative painting and all of that, um, and then later on in life know, like many other people, you want to do a career change. And for me, that was falling back onto what I grew up with, with transforming furniture and working with interior design. And it just seemed like a natural thing to fall back into. And then about 13 years ago, I started OMFORM and I started it specifically as a sustainable interior design firm.
Now, when you first started working on homes. I guess without a career aspect behind it, did you also go into that thinking like, Oh, yes, I am working to sustainability that term is, is a relatively new term, I guess I feel like it is anyway, or maybe it's just more mainstream than it used to be. But I can imagine when you first started working on homes, it probably wasn't on the tip of everyone's tongue at that point.
No. not
in the least. People, I mean,
it really, all it is is what it's, it's
making sure that something is able to be replenished once you take from it. So that there's always Sort of like a circle of something moving forward and which is different than something that's cyclical
in nature where You
grab it out of the ground, you use it, and
then you throw it out.
So, um, I, I, really, I'm just a
regular design firm.
I do what Any other design firm does
I get hired by someone.
I come up with a concept. I
procure the items, I make the deliverables, 
I make the deliverables, but.
My only difference is that I will go to the secondary market first for furnishings and materials before I go to the primary market where everything's made from raw materials.
 to the primary market where everything is made from raw materials.
From searching on their computer, right? They can go onto a vendor's website and start looking for something that they know that they saw at a market or something that they know that they, saw in a magazine. You can't necessarily do that, but I guess you can now with technology, the way that it has increased, right?
But in the, in the beginning, I'm assuming it was more actually getting out in the field and looking for certain things to get your juices flowing for projects.
it was,
uh, it
was definitely a lot of
boots on the ground for that, but that was also the time when there were companies online, outside of eBay that were starting to form like First Dibs and
Cherish. And now those companies, those online marketplaces are out there. Absolutely huge. Well, I was one of the early adopters
and, you know, looking at websites like
that to find
some really unique
luxury pieces
And, you
know, I that
furniture is very much like fashion interior designs like fashion, things cycle around
and so, you see a lot of the same silhouettes uh, maybe years later they're just dressed in new clothing. So,
as far as I'm concerned you know, I wanted a Chesterfield sofa for a project, well, those things have been made for like 400
years.
I'm pretty sure I could find one. on the secondary market that's
built incredibly well. You don't have to cut down a tree to make it because it's already there.
And, you just buy it. add new upholstery to it, for instance.
and then you put it in someone's home.
That's really interesting because I know that when I'm looking for a sofa, whether it is something that I'm going to repurpose or recover or whatever, or something that is new, I look at the construction of it as a designer.
I look at the way that it's made. Is it, corner blocked? Is it screwed and dowed? Is it, glued? What is the kiln dried wood? All the things, right? Eight way hand tied. I guess what I'm trying to say is it doesn't matter how much, how, how many warm and fuzzies you have about recovering something if it's just crap underneath.
So where do you start when you're looking for something that is quality? I'm sure that you're looking for obviously the quality pieces, but do you go into it with that same mindset of like, okay, I'm going to start with this foundation and then work from there. Or how does, how does your process work when it comes to looking for something that you know is worthy of.
Putting under that category of sustainable furniture pieces.
Well, there's a couple of ways. So, first of all, if the piece is really old and it's incredibly built well, like a tank, clearly It's, it's, you know, good reupholstering. And when you know that before about 1940, furniture was built with the intention of it lasting forever. And since World War II, we've had a different mindset of how we manufacture furniture.
So not that everything was built poorly after 1940, but you really do have to do your research. So if I
find a,
you know, like a buffet, for instance,
or a
consult table, you
know, yes, I'm going looking at the quality aspect,
of it. and yes, I know it's old, but if the structure is really sound,
and
it's there, and nothing's
loose, or
maybe it's just got some minor touches that could easily be fixed up. But you know, it's a quality piece in general, 
in general.
I look at the overall aspect
and and sort of the condition of the piece and decide from there. So, um, I
can
look at a lot of old stuff
and then eventually I'll find the right piece.
And I've been,
lucky. I can
do that very quickly
now because well, that's part of my business. 
Yeah, I think that's an asset to your clients.
Obviously, when their clients come to you knowing that this is a component of your business, that this is something that you do naturally, that this is something that is vital to what helps you be a better creative person. Because I noticed on your website, it's very impactful to see those numbers. You have that on the front of your website where the numbers sort of crank up and it shows how many pieces were saved and how many pieces were, not saved from other things.
But. Do clients come to you knowing that and wanting that from you?
Some of them do, but for the most part, clients come to me because I have an ability to really customize around their lifestyle and their characteristic aspects of their personality. And then I get to teach them about sustainable design, but many of my clients don't come knowing about sustainable design.
But once I start
to introduce it to them, the light bulb
turns on and then it's like,
a drug. They have to have more of it because they
see
all these other little trickling benefits that come along with it.
Um, and a
of that was displayed through
uh, COVID and our, our. that era where we had
um, supply chain issues.
Remember that?
Oh, do I
Yeah. So this is where, things like, when we went through all of that mess, right? I mean, So many design firms, and architectural firms were, And a bind, right? Because they couldn't get the products that they needed for their projects or their clients. And it was frustrating, and then you started to see maybe small bespoke firms sort of die out because they couldn't get their product and then they couldn't get orders or
orders were backed up for a year,
you know, and
then me,
well, I sailed through all of that because I could easily procure
used items from the local
market. And
I Of luxury remnant fabrics
that I can
put on pieces of furniture. And then the clients would Just pick
out something. We'd put it on the piece of furniture
or we'd get the wood pieces refinished and then they would be off to their home in three weeks. 
in three
Not
18 weeks, not six months, not a year. So, I sailed through all of that because I used, the local market, local artisans, and I was resourceful. 
Music to my ears thinking that, I mean, one thing that we tend to lose as designers when we start to outsource so many things is that control, which is what we all want as a designer. It's control and, control over the project, control over the creative, control over the tradespeople. And then when that's lost, we just, we just feel lost.
But I love that. That is such an eye opening thing. Concept to think that just by being sustainable and also, there's all the great things that go along with that, but just the, from the business perspective of it to think that you were able to give these things to your clients so much quicker than someone else who was purchasing something brand new because it was sitting on a container, in the middle of the sea somewhere.
And then you were able to not only give something quicker, but I would venture to say. A little more special than what they were getting from a mass manufactured piece and, and your clients, love that. did you sell that perspective to them? And by sell, I mean, did you just let them know like, Hey, look, At my generation, which is Generation X, obviously, baby boomers, we didn't grow up in the same place, and we don't have 
absolutely. You know, much of my business is about being transparent. I will tell clients, new clients from the very beginning that I will be pulling from the secondary market. and when we need to pull from the primary market, we can do that too. I mean, you can't do an entire project entirely with sustainable products or from the secondary market.
It's just not possible these days, but we are inching towards that as an industry. There's even manufacturers now that are starting up things like buyback programs for their products and goods, which I think is amazing. So, the, the sustainable industry is, has taken root. It's growing.
We have a lot to catch up to because we have a primary industry that has Been around for a couple of centuries at this point, and they've trained us to throw out old and buy new, but now we've got generations coming up under me, which is millennials and definitely Gen Z who are swinging that pendulum back completely.
And because they have a, an entirely different mindset. of how to live and what it, what you need to have an impactful life and to have an impact on the environment. That's very much in the forefront of their minds. My generation, which is generation X and obviously baby boomers, we didn't grow up the same way, so we don't have the same thought patterns.
So I find that very interesting and exciting as well because my business
model.
fits that younger generation.
Isn't that funny? Isn't that really, really interesting how things have just switched? You've been doing what you loved and what you felt good about doing all along, and now suddenly, it's shifted to where the market has caught up with you, and now the buyer is educated and understanding why you're doing it, and they want that.
I just did a panel recently at High Point Market where, And the Antiques and Design Center and we talked with a lot of designers. Yeah. And I love that area of market. It's so, so wonderful. So inspiring. It's almost like just, just, you walked in there and you're like, wow, this is really where it all kind of started with where we are in our, in our, in our world as designers.
But I interviewed, I think four. designers who incorporate antiques into their business. And to them, sustainability was also a part of it. But it wasn't so much on refinishing the pieces. It was just for the fact of I am recycling, reusing this piece in another client's home where, it otherwise would have been discarded or been unused.
Do you do that as well as part of your business model and as part of your sustainability practice within your company? I
you know, I have a small showroom, but I have a large warehouse and the warehouse is filled with all kinds of pieces. So I, I employ a small team of pickers and they go out and they find amazing things. We have a profit sharing program with the pickers so that they start to succeed as I succeed. And then I will show clients this is part of the innovative technology that I use with clients. You are familiar with vision boards or idea boards. So I will create those too, but I will take a piece of furniture that I know
a client likes the shape of
um, from my warehouse, and then I will Photoshop the new
fabrics onto it or the new finishes onto it and put it into that idea board saying this piece is available right now if you'd like this style
and then nine times out of 10, they go for it because they are able to see something that's got all.
Uh, an old finish or
old fabric on it and they see it in a brand new condition and they're like, oh, that's cool, I can't find that at a big box store or wherever.
And so, from that standpoint,
uh, Everybody wins, right? So, I win because I get to sell the
piece. the pickers win because they get to be part of the profit sharing program. Um, and refinishers locally get to win,
um, because
work coming to
them. And
The client wins because they get a piece in only a couple of weeks.
So, you know, that business model. And if we go through another
You know, plague like
COVID again. I, can be able to sail through it.
with this program.
I'm not waiting on manufacturers who are waiting on their materials to create something for me, for my client. So,
um, it's a, it's
sort of this, I'm, I'm building my little teamwork within the circular economy so
that we throw out as little as possible.
and we see the
value of things. And in the
past, I'm
going to say 25, 30 years, we've lived in what I call the golden age of
replicas. Manufacturers have figured out they don't have to
invent the wheel. They just have to keep creating the same stuff they just use. Inferior materials to to make it happen so that your item can fall apart in 3 to 5 years and you have to go out and buy more
buy anymore.
and
it's, I agree with that so much and in different aspects. I, I remember back during Covid, you know that C word, when everyone was just like, oh my gosh, I wanna change my house. I wanna change my house, I wanna change, and they were just ordering. random crap from the internet and then all of a sudden you look on the curb and like, oh there's your quote sofa that you had to have during COVID that cost you, a thousand dollars or 500 bucks and now the arm's fallen off of it or the leg is broken because it was crap to begin with.
And then as you say, it just contributes to this cycle of constant waste, right?
it does. And, when I, when I talk about sustainable interior design. you have to make it fun, you have to make it desirable, you have to make it sexy, so to speak, in order for anybody, doesn't matter if you're a designer, architect in the industry or the public, to really, turn their head and their ear in your direction. So I, I have this phrase where I say teaching adults about sustainable design is like trying to get your kid to love broccoli. right? They are not going to do it unless you mix it into your macaroni and cheese, or you hide it in something that's really tasty for them. And then all of a sudden, they realize that broccoli isn't bad, that it's really good for them.
It has all these nutrients. Some people love broccoli right away, but most people, you got to kind of hide it in something really sweet and enticing. And in the sustainable industry, now that it's really popped up and grown. They haven't I don't feel like they've learned that aspect yet of how to hide the broccoli because broccoli is healthy.
asked
People don't want to eat it unless it tastes sweet and looks good and is desirable. So you got to figure out what that recipe is, right?
is healthy. How you brand things. And I think the marketing aspect of us as interior designers is always fascinating, fascinating. It's always interesting to me to see what the public sort of gravitates towards, but you touched on something earlier that I feel could be a challenge for some people. It sounds like you've.
Mastered it. And maybe we could dive into that a bit more is I don't feel that the consumer has a good sense of being able to see something in their minds such as the way that we do as designers, which is why we're so involved in the presentation phase. We're so involved in these renderings and so forth that we do with our clients.
So when you were saying that you put the fabric on the piece and you show them how it looks and and you give them an idea of that. Is that how you overcome? The objection of, oh gosh, I don't know if I want that piece. I haven't seen that piece. That's not something that I can, go and see because it's an antique and it's, across the country or whatever.
How do you overcome those objections from your clients when they're saying, I want to see this piece, I want to touch this piece, I want to feel this piece, or I said, I just happen to go to the secondary market first 
of ways. I mean, 1 of the ways is I've got a showroom, so I will bring the piece from the warehouse to the showroom and we start draping fabrics on it. And so they can actually see and touch and feel the piece. So that's 1 way. Obviously, seeing is believing. So when I do these Photoshop renderings, or these Starting to do AI renderings with it now, too, as long as I can make the deliverable happen. But I'm starting to use all kinds of newer technologies to create what an item or a room will look like in real life. Those really sell more than anything else, the concept to the client. Know, I have a really interesting initial meeting with clients and I'll sit down with them at their home or at their business, whether it doesn't matter if I'm working in commercial or residential and, but especially with residential, I ask them all questions, all kinds of questions about their lifestyle. What they like, how they wake up in the morning, where, do they brush your teeth every day? Do they make their bed? What's their vacation spot? And there's quite a few of them that say, you haven't asked any questions about the house. And I say, yeah, I know. I see the house. I see what it's telling me.
It's pretty straightforward. What it's telling me, I need to know about you. And so my investment in any project is really about the client. There are quirks. Their strengths their character, the things they're naturally drawn to, and that's what I create my basis for the design. Um, and like I said, I just happen to go to the secondary market first and start picking pieces that I think
would fit their lifestyle and their character and the things that they're drawn to. So,
and if that means photoshopping, things with fabrics that they would like or whatever, that's what I do It's part of the, it's part of the package.
I mean, I love the fact that you have vintage fabric bolts lying around. I want to come and just pilfer through those on a random day, because I think that just sounds delightful, first of all.
But, do you
Get
in line. 
I know right just drape myself in your velvet fabric So I didn't just see him now and just take photo photo sessions after photo sessions Fabrics and wall coverings are things that I just cannot pull myself away from a vintage pieces, especially when you're doing this extra step for your clients, do you know?
Going into the project that, Oh, I'm going to have to render this. Oh, I'm going to have to Photoshop this. I'm going to have to do this. And then do you build that into your cost of the project? Because that's not easy and it doesn't take, it's not like you snap your fingers and it's done. So do you incorporate that into your fees for your clients and on the upfront?
Yes, I do. And That's very transparent.
with my contract with them that I will I do a lot of my design work in blocks of time. So I will figure out a certain amount of time. And that's what we build our retainer off of. And then after that they are free to buy more blocks of time, like maybe 10 hours or an extra 20 hours or something like that. So it's a
way of them being able to, for both of us actually, to be able to control what gets done
within a certain amount of time. I haven't met a client yet who doesn't like that approach. So,
um, it's kind of like, here's your main course. Here's what we can do with the main course. Oh, you want a couple of a
la carte items? Okay. Well, here's the cost for that.
And if you if you want it, let's tag it on. So it,
it becomes something
where it's really in the client's hands. Um, As to How much they want to spend on a project. but My main goal really is to garner their trust and them knowing that I'm going to be taking care of 
them. 
trust and No. I've never had that, and it's because I do like to go 
No, I've never had that. And it's because I do allow the allotted amount of time. Now, granted, I can do a lot of Photoshop renderings and I can do a lot of other, 3d renderings very quickly now where I couldn't Way back when. Um, and that's just practice, right? So, I'm, I'm able to work very efficiently for the most part.
So I get my timing down for the initial set of hours pretty well. So I would Say,
I'm
usually, I'm going to say
90 percent on
target for the most part. And the only time that we need to go over is when the client changing their mind, every time the wind changes direction or something like that. And then I kind of have to set them straight that they're spending money. On something that is not fruitful. So make a decision. 
not fruitful. So, make a decision. Renovations, particularly historic renovations. how is that side of your business? Talk a bit about that. Tell me a bit about how you incorporate sustainability into that part of your business, other than simply the fact that you're working on a historic home.
Do you bring in sustainable materials into that as well? Or tell me about how you pull that under your umbrella of sustainability when you're working on a renovation project in your company.
So those 2 things go hand in hand, sustainability and historic restoration. Um, I recently worked on a home called the fully mansion. It was a 3 year long project. It was 7. 2Million dollars and it was a full on restoration. Now, We, the home in and of itself, and not all the homes I work on have historic Designation, but this one did. So we had to follow.
some really strict rules and guidelines. And in order to get tax credits, of course, we had to keep the exterior exactly as it was from the 1800s. But we also got tax credits for the interior, which means I had to use specific materials, specific finishes, and I had to know what all of those finishes were from about 150 years ago. So when you work in historic restoration, you better know your history of architecture, of design, of trends, and even of social constructs of that time. Why did they make those crazy choices they did way back when? Well, there's a reason for it. And if you don't know those things, you could end up with a house that looks like a facsimile of a Victorian sort of grandma style house, but it's not real. But if you know your history, you can really bring in the authenticity to the
house to the point where it looks like it's never been touched for 150 years. It's just been maintained
incredibly well, and that's usually what I strive for. So I'm constantly educating myself 
stop about historical aspects of all different types of architecture, different types of style um, literally the 1600s up until the 21st century.
And so I.
am Working my way towards becoming an idiot savant in this in this field.
I'm not quite there yet but I'm getting there. And and that's the thing that people hire me for is this insane knowledge base that I can come into a, into a building and go, oh, this is, Rococo, which is very different style than Renaissance. And I can, know the difference between Art Nouveau and Art Deco, and all of these different styles when I walk into a building and the, When somebody is
going into the restoration realm of a project,
they
want and need people in my field. And I come with a team of artisans who work within historical restoration too. So that's another benefit of hiring someone like me
for a project of that nature.
Now, that
doesn't mean that I have to
stay true to the period when it comes to furniture or lighting or anything that's, you know, can be removed easily. And so I enjoy taking these older properties like the Foley Mansion and putting in newer furniture and really mixing it up because newsflash, we don't live in the 1800s anymore and nobody likes that furniture for the most part. So we have to have a relatability to people who live in the 21st century without it looking old.
out of place in an older home.
You know, and that's a bit of a skill
too. 
a skill too. It really is, and you made a very important distinction there between historic restoration and historic renovation. I feel those are two very different terms, and I think I said historic renovation, but I love historic restoration because you are truly staying true to the heritage, the.
working on some new built homes as well. So, uh, it's the uh, restoration of an 
working on some new build homes as well. So, uh, I run the gamut as far as that is concerned. Um, I also work on commercial properties. There's a really cool project I'm, uh, have been working on for the past, uh, two years, um, and we're getting ready to start it. And it's the, uh, restoration of an old opera house. Yes. 
 If you're designing for someone who buys into everything that you have, all of your sustainability aspects, every, they love the way that you have your company set up, they love all of your philosophies.
Well, Carter, I've got three kids and they're a little grungy and they run around with jelly on their hands and cookies on their face and all these things. What do you say to someone like that if they still want to, put all these pieces into their home? Can you work with someone who has those needs?
Oh, 
That's just a matter of making sure that your surfaces and your, your fabrics and things are kid and pet friendly, right? And then, of course, you make your kids sign an agreement that they will be banished to an island if they mess anything up. So it's, it's a combination of those things.
I've put a lot of kids on that, on those islands. It's getting full, I have to tell you. Those islands are getting, that island's getting full. Do you think that there is Any misconceptions about sustainability that the public has or that designers have or that just in general is out there? And if so, what?
What do you think those would be?
Well, the Misconception.
I don't know if it's a misconception more
than it's just people still don't
quite understand what sustainable design is. And so, as long as there's people like me who put it out there and easy bites for
the broccoli sitting within the macaroni and cheese, and they make it fun and, you know, interesting to,
uh, watch social media
and in, well, actually all
media per se. Then
once you start getting used to it then you start to understand it a little bit more, so I
don't know if there's much misconception other than the fact that
I think some people
still think sustainable design
is taking mason jars and turning them into light fixtures,
you um, Or something made out of bamboo, like flooring.
And it's like, it's it's a whole gamut of things.
It's not just
Uh, this one part that
you saw on maybe HGTV, you know, five, 10 years ago. It's, it's, it's grown substantially since then, in some ways.
Most of
it is just getting the word out there and making people understand that sustainability is just sort of like another adjective to the realm of interior design.
What about a designer who wants to dip their toe into it, who wants to start being more sustainable and for all the, for all the right reasons, right? For the environment, for Just, not letting these beautiful pieces go by the wayside. It might sound insurmountable for them to start doing what you're doing.
They don't have pickers. They don't have a warehouse. They don't have maybe not, maybe not even rendering skills. All the connections that you have. Do you have any advice for someone who doesn't know how to even get started in, in this sustainability practice?
Sure.
Um, it's easy. 
go 
go up, 
It just 
up. I've never done that.
I've never 
we're done That's good. I'm good.
no. um, it's really, really easy. You just go out and you start looking at consignment shops, for instance, in antique stores and start buying pieces that you know would fit into your client's project. It's really that simple. You can also look at, Places like Facebook marketplace or if you have relationships with builders already, a lot of times I've got relationships with builders and a lot of times those builders are throwing out all of this access material, whether it's wood, flooring, or
it's tile, or it's something that I know I can use in a future project. So I asked them for
it. Now I go around to a bunch of builders and ask for what their accesses are and I put it in my warehouse. So I will at times have excess,
uh, slabs and marble slabs for
a smaller project. I will have tile for full bathrooms at times
because there was an order that was made, and then it turned out not to be right, and then the builder doesn't know what to do. Someone like me comes in, intercepts it, brings it into my warehouse, and then uses it on a project.
So those are all
tips that uh, any designer who are,
who are wanting to get into sustainability, it's very easy to do.
You just got to get out there.
And if, you're a designer that likes to look online, well, there's eBay, and Cherish, and FirstDibs.
And, you
know, those are places
that you can look first for, you know, that
maybe they're
perfect, or maybe you have to transform them. And designers are creative people, so they have vision, that's why we get That's why we get
hired, right?
hired. Right? That those are great tips. I think that's, that's wonderful. And I think that so many people think, oh, every project has to be different. I can't buy something Now in thinking that I'm or or use a leftover remnant for a future project, you can use it in a different way.
As a for instance, I. It was a beautiful marble, but we repurposed that into this gorgeous table for our client. We had it turned into this, something that they felt was going to be with them forever. But otherwise, we would have just donated that or, thrown it away or whatever. But we decided to turn it into something that was actually Useful versus getting rid of it.
So there's many, many ways to your point to start the process and to not, you don't have to go fully head on 100 percent into it to start to get acclimated to that. Do you think that there's anything in the design industry that you would like to see change? How are we doing in the design industry with this whole sustainability aspect?
Are we, are we doing okay? Are vendors doing okay? I see a lot of vendors who say. Sustainable. And then you like, okay, well, what does that mean? I mean, I think they just slap a label on a cardboard box and, and we are just expected to assume that that means something great. But I, I, where do you see the industry right now as far as sustainability practices?
I see it moving forward, but it's moving slowly, right? It's, it's not going to be a roadrunner. It's not going to move super fast. It, and You're right with the, with
a lot of companies throwing on the green label onto their package. Well, yeah. Okay. We know the cardboard box has been recycled that your product comes in. That doesn't mean you're a sustainable company, but the companies that are sustainable do put out the proof and they put out the statistics and the specifications with their sustainability. We have guidelines now within the. within the government as to what can be labeled sustainable and
they're a little loose right now, but they are getting tighter all the time as the sustainable movement and industry grows.
And, you know, at a certain point, especially when.
Gen Z's and Gen Alpha
are at that stage where they want to spend
money on things. The companies that don't get on board,
Are going to be lost. So
a lot of these companies better start looking towards the,
future now, as far as how to morph with the
generations. Because I'm telling you, the
idea of buying something, throwing it out, and buying something new, Will eventually go by the time Gen Z's get around to being truly, uh, in the spotlight. 
from your mouth to God's ears, I actually hope that that happens because I think that we need to be just better human beings on the planet Earth that we live on for all the right reasons.
But that is just a. One great way that we can do that. And I want all the vendors, if you're listening right now, please listen to Carter's advice and, and start to bring this into into your business because we are such a throwaway society. And, and I know I go to market and I see, Oh gosh, what's new.
We're always excited about what's new, what's coming up. What's the newest thing. What's the newest trend. What's the newest piece. What's the newest fabric, and meanwhile. There's so many beautiful pieces that are in the past that would work so perfectly in our designs right now. And then you, as to your point earlier, you look at some of the pieces and you're like, oh yeah, they stole that from that, that 18th century sofa, or they stole that from that commode or whatever, like, you know exactly where it came from.
And because it was well made and well designed to begin with. So it's, it's, it's an honor that they did it, but also like a disgrace at the same time, I think, right?
well, it's also a
testament to,
how really good design, whatever the style is, it has a
longevity that could
last centuries, right? I mean, the Louis, the 16th
chair, people still buy it for their dining rooms. Um, but what I really am excited about is there are some furniture manufacturers who are instigating buyback programs. And, it all started with. Last year, Ikea, of all companies, started a buyback program, and what people don't realize is Ikea started out as a sustainable design business back in the mid century of the 20th century. And 
It was flat packing. It was using MDF with a, with a melamine coating or veneer on it.
And it was all designed for
sustainability, right? And affordability all of the, I'll name a buzzword. and, uh, Then, they became humongous and became a problem of their own design, right? So then they started instigating things like solar power in all of their plants so that they could reduce their electrical load. And now Last year they started program. And, as I know working really well. So, they buy back the furniture that they can,
He has to go through an inspection list.
and then they
can,
resell it, or they can give it to a charitable organization to sell. so that it stays out of the landfill. And I think that's amazing. And there's a lot of smaller bespoke companies who've made the same furniture for the past 50 years.
So, if they
were to
implement a buyback program, well, guess what? The supply chain
issue vanishes because you don't have to buy wood to build
the frame for your furniture. It's already made.
You've reduced your uh, economic and your labor costs right there.
All you have to do is
maybe get rid of the inners, uh, you know, the and then put new fabric on it and send it right
back out because it's the same,
it's the same darn frame you've been selling for 30 years.
So a
buyback program could work incredibly well for smaller furniture companies that produce the same look every year and year because it's a classic, and it's something that they're known for. So, you know, these are easy ways that the industry can change. Really easy.
Industry can change. It really can. You do. Okay. Okay. Okay.
As a matter of fact, when I meet with new clients, a lot of times they have older furniture. That's fantastic. I will, I will buy it, buy it from them. I'll put it in my warehouse. And then we, go back to the warehouse and they find something new that they like and I'll recover it for them and put that in their house. So.
interesting. That is interesting. I'm just like thinking like all now, all the business side of things come into play, like, Oh, you could, if you see something that you know, you could use for something else, maybe that is part of the design fee, or maybe that is something that you just discount on their fees for or whatever, maybe that's a credit to them down the road on a product that they purchased, from you down the road, like that could go into so many different ways.
And that is truly. Warm and fuzzy, win win situation on both sides of the equation there, right? Like, the client's happy, you're happy, you get something you can use. They don't care about that grandma's, chest anymore. They know, they don't want it and you can take it and reuse it for something else.
I think that's just wonderful. I never even thought about that.
yeah, I
mean, I'm selective with the things that I pick, obviously but if there's other things that clients are willing to get rid of, and, I just sent them to all the consignment shops, the high end consignment shops or wherever that those items can sell at. So, that's just an extension of my, my services when I start working with clients, because.
When you're working on a new project most people already have furniture, and if it doesn't work within the new project, you have to do something with it. So, as far as I'm concerned, that's just part and parcel of part of my services is, okay, Are these things that we are able to keep and change for you, or are these things that we need to get rid of because you're in a whole new, you know, you're going from colonialism to modernism now, and,
to
Let's let's work with what you have and what we can get. 
an owner? Let's, let's work with what you have and what we can get. 
Bring to them automatically this list of consignment shops to resell their pieces that they can make some money back from. And then you just literally turn, I, I do this. I just turn it over to them. I don't handle any of the, logistical parts of that. I just say, here's the shop, call them, put it in there.
And then many, many times they sell the pieces and they make some money from it. So if you're a designer listening, Carter and I are telling you, get a list of consignment shops, resell shops, and, and, and help your clients out. And it's a, it's a great win. For the environment as well. Do you, I used to use Habitat for Humanity a lot when we, I don't think that they do this anymore, but there's other companies who do this, kitchen cabinetry, they'll help you remove it and then they'll resell it in their shop.
I know there's limited areas that do that, or maybe they don't even do it anymore, but I have found. in different areas where we're working on homes. If you just do a little bit of research, you can find companies who will come in and do actual labor for you and take those down without damaging them. And then they can make money by reselling them.
So it's kind of a, again, a win win for everybody. The client doesn't pay for a demo. You don't have to worry about it. I mean, you obviously want to make sure they do a good job, but and then they can resell that those cabinets on their own accord. But do you have any Well 
you know, there's companies out there, at least in major metropolitan areas that will come in and
I I know I can think of four of them right off the top of my head of companies that will come in and take all of your kitchen, your entire kitchen out. Um, half the time they will, they will Take photos of it, sell the kitchen in place, take it out and just immediately bring it over to the, the new space that it's going to be installed in. So
there's, um, there's some companies out there that are very slick and how
they, they market and how they work as far as
uh, that approach.
to sustainability and since I tend to work
with, clients in the upper
bracket, you know, they have some pretty nice kitchens that they're getting rid of. and they're
desirable and there's no reason for it to be thrown out or sit not on curb or something
like that.
So, It's, you know, there's companies springing up all over the place doing their own form of sustainability. and yes, I make sure that I,
try to follow and learn as
many of those companies that are popping up as possible.
And, that just adds to my roster of things that I can provide
for a client
And I do a lot
of kitchen remodels and a lot of stuff gets
torn out. So I'm calling on these companies all the
time saying, Hey, come get this. And then
they
do what they do.
And a client's happy because,
uh, it's
usually less than the cost of the general contractor doing it who, who would eventually
probably throw it out. 
And sometimes they can even get the tax write off of the donation to the company. Right. They'll give them a form where they can take that. Donation that they've made to this company and then write a write it off on their taxes if it works out that way for their own yeah right and by the way people think oh you can't donate countertops you can most definitely donate countertops if the countertops are in good condition and fit the format you can obviously recut a countertop into a different size and different format so don't start ripping the countertops out people thinking that just the cabinets can be donated please please please keep the countertops because Those are reusable and different.
Projects as well. You just don't know what size the kitchen's going to be. Right.
Exactly. And so I like in my part of the country in the Midwest, you know, the companies that I work with sell the entire kitchen. So the cabinetry, the countertops, the appliances, the plumbing, the lighting, all in one shot. And they're very successful at it. And I can guarantee you those kitchens
go so fast.
because the economical price point of being able to buy something. I mean, Do you, do you remember a furniture company called Slumberland?
Oh, I do.
Slumberland was one of these furniture shops. I think they still exist where they, you remember living room in a bag where you could buy a sofa and a loveseat and a chair and three tables and two lamps and one shot and, and people just loved it.
They loved the concept. I mean, I. I get the hives when I see something like that now, but it was a big, big
deal. Well, These companies I work with, with the kitchens, they do the same thing. You, you buy the whole kitchen and, but there's a benefit to that because people just are like, well, I don't have to buy anything. Maybe some
new light fixtures, but I've got plumbing and everything and appliances and everything else.
Yeah. They're like, well I wasn't really looking for an a galley kitchen, but you know what? Let's just redraw this. And they turn this into a galley kitchen. 'cause this is a really pretty set of cabinets for a lot less money than buying new ones.
 So yeah, I think that's wonderful.
and, and you get the wolf's stove to go with it,
Yeah.
you know? 
And I think there's even some companies that have reached out to us and we haven't really used them a lot because I. I'm trying, I try to be really cognizant of when we're working on a new construction home or a renovation. I try to be cognizant of how much we're ordering so that we're not having a lot of waste.
And inevitably there is some, but there are companies now who will purchase those leftover tiles and whatever from you and then reuse them right on other things. So Talk, talk about that because I think that so many times once a project is over that we just let the GCs come in and we don't even, as designers, look into that to see, oh, maybe we should not just throw those into the dumpster because it's a brand new box of tile that hasn't been opened yet and someone else may be able to use that.
Yeah.
You know, I, This is part of my
business acumen is to go around to and build relationships with all the luxury home builders and all the higher end home builders and see what is left over. And I have the buy back program where I will buy those items directly from them, put it into the van and take it to our warehouse.
see how 
But I'm not buying, like, just one box of tile. I can't do much with that,
but if it's, you know, maybe seven or eight boxes of the same tile, and I know that it can work within a kitchen or a powder room or something like that, yes, I'm buying that. And now it's to the point
where I've got builders who will call me up going, hey, we have some uh, Excess stuff here, would you like
to come take a look at it or we ordered wrong and we can't return it. Can you buy it off of us? And I would go and look at it?
and if it works out, yeah, I pick it up and put it into my warehouse. But. But I'm
a, I'm a case where this is how I've built my company. you know, and fully realized that other designers are
are 
not
geared towards that
the same way that I am.
So, but it's still a
possibility. if you see
things that are
on a building site that you know is going to go to waste, and you know as a designer you could use it on another project and you've got some space in your garage, uh, you know it's a good way to start. 
also maybe work on your estimating skills if you have like eight or ten boxes of tile left over.
I would, I would suggest that as well 
Yeah. 
you're the one, if you're, if you're the one estimating it. I, I know for us, we, we rely on our wallpaper installers to give us the estimates. And. Sometimes they're just shooting from the hips. I'll be honest with it. And so I've now trained my team to actually go in and do the estimating prior before, even though it's one extra step that we have to do.
I was so sick. of having four or five, six rolls of wall covering left over from a project that our client was paying for, number one. Number two, just a lot of waste and that we weren't able to do anything with because the wallpaper company did not want that back at that point. And if they did, they couldn't reuse it because it was from a different dye lot, et cetera, et cetera.
So, wall covering for us was a big B in my bonnet because I was like, I'm tired of these wallpaper installers. So now we really stress to them. Please, please, please take your time, don't rush this estimating process with us. Please make sure that you are giving us an accurate estimate on this so that we're not having four, five, six rolls of wall covering left over.
And, and, and then you have to explain it to your client too, like, Oh, well, sorry, yeah, you, you spent another 3, 000 on wallpaper, but shucks, just whatever, just throw it down the toilet. Like, that's not fair to them either, nor is it fair to mother nature, right? So it's just a, it's just a, from the business side of things as well as the sustainability side of things.
It just makes sense.
Well, if you want to learn a tip that I've used and it has nothing to do with sustainability, but just an interior
designer, a well rounded interior designer and enough yourself one of the things that I've always believed in is taking classes and all of these different trades. So I now know how to set tile,
tile, 
which means I can talk to tile.
tile 
tile installers. I now know how to put up wallpaper, cause I took classes and how to do that correctly.
So I can talk to
wallpaper. hangers, I have taken some kind of
classes in,
or I've asked to be a sidekick beside the craftsperson
making something.
Because I want to learn their language, and how they do things, so that in the future,
I can talk to anybody in their field
and actually know what
I'm talking about.
I don't have to be a scholar in all of these different industries,
but the idea of
Learning how to speak their language
has been
immeasurable for me as far as being able to build amazing relationships,
uh, with all of
different craftspeople uh, in the industry and being able to have really good communication skills because I'm,
I'm not just
say,
uh, Well, I don't know how that wallpaper goes up, just put it up.
the skills going, oh, okay uh, here's repeat.
I know
what that formula
is. I'm going to order the wallpaper or tell you what it is. You can tell me if it's wrong.
And, you know, I
work with a lot of uh, people in that sense. And I'm
telling you,
as a designer, knowing those skills
has made things so much smoother, as far as
my reputation and as far
as being able to work well with
different people in different industries. I encourage it highly 
that if you're an interior designer,
learn some trades. 
That is such, such good advice it's almost like person who comes into the company in the mail room and then they start to learn how to do the mail room and then they move over to accounting and then they go to bookkeeping and they go to here and there. And then before you know it, they're the CEO because they know all the different aspects of the company so well and how to do those.
And I agree with you. It does make a difference when you can speak to and with a trades person On an intelligent level and say, Okay, yes, I understand that. You thought that was this, but here's actually the way to do that. And it was actually a downfall. I've told this before, but for me, my family built homes.
And so I knew those things. And so for me going into it, they expected, some flamboyant designer, Eric. To come walking in and I was like, well, listen, I don't think that that's, and I was, I would literally like tell them about wiring and electrical and plumbing and all the things. And they were like, Oh, okay, shoot.
He knows these things. So yes, to your point, they take you more serious. You have more credibility and the job goes easier as well. Now, from a liability standpoint, I still do personally require that they do their own estimation because I have it in my agreement that if they do. Not do them correctly.
it is their fault because we have our own and we double checked it and we're like, okay, listen, you may want to rethink about that because we, we've already done this tile layout we've done the elevation for this wall. We know. What we say it should be, and we've done 15 percent waste, but you need to, you're saying is this, okay, we listen to you, but please check that, you probably did it in your car, really quickly eating a burger at lunch, but, we, we sat down, we sat down and did this but the liability aspect of it from a business perspective, I want them to to be the ones to like, send that over to us because I will charge them back for that is the way I work it within my company.
I make them pay for that. And then I reimbursed the client for it. So that's how I do it because 
the exact same. 
good, good, good, good, good, good. Yeah. And, and, but so many designers think that we have to do all the work and we have to do all the things and we have to make, take on all the liability of that.
Whereas if we actually relied on the people, that we partner with, such as these tradespeople, to actually do their job and do it, number two, do it correctly. Then, we would have a lot less stress in our lives if we just let the people who supposedly know what they're doing. Do what they're supposed to do.
And then all it takes, I think, is that one time for you to send over an invoice and say, Oh, look, you, you owe us a thousand dollars to reimburse the client because you miscalculated your estimations on this to take off was completely wrong. It just takes that one time for them to do it. And then everything after that turns into like right on the money.
So yes,
I've been there. I've, yep.
yeah,
to me.
I love it. Wow. 
It's, like, um,
everybody from the people you work with your team that you work with to the clients, when they realize that you've got your, your, your skillset and how valuable it is, it's sort of like realizing that Your dentist has a skill set and you can't just go in and do your own dental work that you need somebody who knows how to do it and you rely on them.
And I think designers, we need to get to that level where, where people really understand what our skill set is and how it enhances their life completely, and I know it gets watered down with shows on,
you know, network television and it gets watered down on the internet and social media. and all of that, but. proving your, valuable skills and your knowledge set,
I think, is such a huge key with interior design. 
What we do as designers and how much we bring to a project just from a quick little like tidbit or hit online. It's just, it's not as simple as that. So I agree with you and I'm glad that you said that. And, and even back to your sustainability, I feel like too, you've given us incremental ways to work this into our companies to feel like it's not insurmountable.
And in bite sized pieces, we can start to do this. So I want to thank you for that. Thank you for what you do to bring sustainability into the light. What's new for your company? What's on the horizons? Anything exciting happening for you that you have planned on the sustainability front or anything new that you have just for your company as a whole?
Any new endeavors that you're working on that you're excited about?
Well, I'm excited about this opera house we're working on because it's from 1908. and
when you walk into the Opera House now
you can see It's like a time warp, like they shut the doors in 1930 and never opened them back up. But it's in a bit of a dilapidated state and all the sacco fresco work on the ceiling is starting to crumble a little bit.
So it obviously needs restoration. But those are the types of projects that excite me because those are the things that people think are too big and too hard
to take on. And
I look at it like, oh,
great. This is
another challenge for me.
and I'm going to make it work. Somehow, I'm gonna make it work, right?
Right? , 
Um, 
When, when you find a project or when you do something that truly, truly lights you up, you will find a way to do it, and you can tell a difference between just taking on a project because it's gonna pay the bills versus taking on a project because you're it, you're truly excited about it.
It just makes a big difference. It 
I'm lucky enough to be where I'm at in my life to be able to take on the projects that bring me as much joy as I can bring the client. in the beginning like everybody else. I took on every single project under the sun and a lot of it was uninspiring for me, which means you're not being at your best when
you're
working with it. Even if you're pleasing the
client and I'm,
now, officially, you know, I'm way past the AARP, you
the mail. So, um, I just want to work
on things that are super inspiring and it doesn't mean that I'm picky.
It's just that
just that 
I'm lucky enough now the projects come in 
come in
with,
enough gusto
and, clients who are as, excited as I am to make something come back to life. So I'm, I'm very lucky in that sense. 
that's, you are very, very, very fortunate. Well, I've loved our interview. Thank you so much for so much for sharing all of your insights, sharing all of your information about sustainability. You really did make it sound simple and easy and just fun. And thank you for doing that. Tell everybody where they can find you online, on your website, where you hang out on social media, all that good stuff.
So, I have a website on form interior design and on form is a funny Norwegian word, as you can tell by my blonde hair. it it means to transform. So my business is actually called to transform in their region. So I'm form design. com. And I'm really, I'm really only on one social media platform and that is Instagram. because it's visual and design to me is visual. And so in order to excite people, that's where I'm at. And that's a um, form design on Instagram.
Love it. And we will put that in the show notes as well. Wonderful. so
Thank you so much for having me.
This was a lot of fun and I
hope I didn't embarrass you. 
embarrass you. You did not. Not yet. I mean, if you wanna keep talking, we can try to, but it's very hard to embarrass me, Carter. But no, thank you . I really, I really enjoyed this and I know everybody listening and watching found some things too that they can apply to their own businesses, which is the whole purpose of the designer within podcast.
So Carter, thank you very much and I'll see you soon.
Thank you.
Okay. Bye bye. 
Thanks for sticking with me to the end of the designer within podcast. It means the world to me. If you're ready to dive deeper into the topics that we've discussed here, be sure to check out my online coaching and courses program, design success academy. com. Here I will teach you everything you need to know to run your interior design business from starting the project all the way to the end, including marketing and pricing your services for your clients.
And for more information on this podcast, including how to be a guest or my design services in general, go to John McClain. co. That's John McClain. co. See you soon, friend.