The Designer Within
The Designer Within podcast is where creativity and business savvy collide, offering a fresh perspective for interior designers and innovative entrepreneurs.
Created by John McClain, a seasoned creative entrepreneur who’s faced the ups and downs of the industry, this show is all about sharing real, unfiltered insights. If you’re ready to channel the same creativity you use for your clients into your own business, then this podcast is for you.
Join us as we dive deep, reimagine success, and transform both your business and your life from the inside out.
The Designer Within
How To Combine Excellent Client Communication & Creative Risks For Ultimate Success with Sarah Wilson
Ever wondered how a background in IT could transform the world of interior design? This episode of The Designer Within Podcast with John McClain promises an engaging exploration of career transitions with our inspiring guest, Sarah Wilson, the owner and principal designer of Chansaerae Designs. Sarah’s incredible journey from the structured environment of IT to the creative realm of interior design is a must-hear.
She openly shares her experiences of returning to design school as an adult, leveraging her technical skills to streamline her business operations, and taking bold creative risks that set her apart in the industry. We explore how she aligns with clients to bring their wildest design dreams to life while staying true to their personal identity.
Our conversation dives into the unexpected ways previous career skills can enhance new ventures. Sarah’s story is a testament to leveraging past experiences for success in interior design, offering a unique perspective on the importance of formal education, practical industry knowledge, and the value of attending market events. Together, John McClain and Sarah discuss the significant influence of personal and cultural backgrounds on design aesthetics, enriching the creative process with distinctive styles.
The latter part of our episode tackles the often tricky subject of pricing transparency and client communication in the design industry. We share candid insights on managing client expectations, the importance of clear communication, and building trust through unique design solutions.
This episode is a treasure trove of actionable insights and inspiring stories for designers and creative entrepreneurs eager to push boundaries and exceed client expectations.
Join us and get inspired to create extraordinary designs that leave a lasting impact with Sarah Wilson of Chansaerae Designs.
More on Sarah Wilson:
Website: https://chansaeraedesigns.com/
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You said have you really done your job as a designer if you don't design something for your client that is outside of the expectations that they had for the project? So tell me what you meant by that.
Speaker 2:Basically, they saw another designer's design and wanted me to recreate it right, and I just said to myself I don't want people to know what it is I'm designing for them, because if that's the case, they could just do it themselves, and then I become the sourcing person. What I want is a design that, while it's true to who they are, I want it to blow their mind. I want them to be like I never would have thought about this, but this is so amazing. I even want there to be a little bit of sometimes convincing that I have to do to get them outside of the box of design that they've placed themselves in. And when it's done, they're always like. My friends came over here. They couldn't believe it. They were like it looks like you, but I know you could have never done this, and that's the experience I want to live them.
Speaker 1:Hey all you're listening to the designer within podcast, episode number 48. I'm john McLean and welcome to the Designer Within Podcast, episode number 48. I'm John McClain and welcome to the Designer Within Podcast, the business-minded podcast created for creative entrepreneurs by a creative entrepreneur. That's me. I know firsthand the challenges, but also the victories that can come with our careers, and I'm here to sip and spill the tea with you. It's time to dive deep within yourself and redesign your own business and your life from the inside out. Together, we will uncover secrets and share valuable insights. So prepare for a transformative experience, my friends, because it's time to unleash the designer within.
Speaker 1:Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the designer within. How the heck. Welcome back to another episode of the designer within. How the heck are you? Can you believe it is summer? It feels so weird to say that it's already June. It's already like almost the middle of June, which even feels stranger. I don't know if any of you are going to be at Las Vegas market, but that will be the next big market that is upcoming that I will be at. So I will be there in July. At the end of July, I will be on some panels and I will be hosting the awards as well. So some fun things there. I will keep you posted on that and I hope your summer is off to a great, great start. I'm assuming the kids are out of school by now in most areas. It's so hard to keep track of that now that I'm not around my nieces and nephews as much as I used to be, but I am doing well and really excited about today's episode.
Speaker 1:Today I have Sarah Wilson on the podcast. Sarah is the owner and principal designer of Chancere Designs and you are going to love Sarah Wilson. If you've heard a lot of recent guests on my podcast that I met at Luann Live I'm speaking about Luann Nigara, of course, and last fall in Orlando she had what she calls Luann Live and I was one of the speakers at the event and at that event I met so many wonderful, wonderful people. Once again, sarah is one of those wonderful people and we just clicked right away and I just love her. I love her energy, I love her philosophy and she's just really, really good at her job, frankly, and you're going to love this interview.
Speaker 1:We tell her so many things in this conversation. We talk about why she loves design, her former career, how she sort of meandered, if you will, into design from what she did before, and the fact that she really didn't hate her previous job. She just wanted to do something that fulfilled her even more, and I think that is such an important caveat, because a lot of the time, many of us are like no, no, no, I hate this, I hate this, I hate this. That really wasn't the case with Sarah. She just was ready for a change and she wanted to fulfill herself creatively, and she talks about how she did that, and she really talks about how she brought her former life in IT over to design and how she works that into her business to not only make her business run smoother but, as she says, it saves her a lot of money and a lot of time, which I love.
Speaker 1:Sarah is also going to share with you her journey of going back to school, back to design school, to get her degree in design as an adult, which I did as well, and it's an interesting journey to hear that. If you did that, you know exactly how that might feel going back to school with some younger kids in the classroom, but it is an interesting perspective that Sarah has on that. We also talked about some of Sarah's business practices. We discussed her agreement.
Speaker 1:We talked about her consultation, how she finds the right clients and how she really wants to make sure that her clients are aligned with her and are looking for the same thing creatively and are willing to take some risks and let Sarah really show her clients what she can bring to the table as a designer and try to push those boundaries. Sarah is just a breath of fresh air. You're going to love this conversation. You're going to learn a lot from this conversation, so put those earbuds in and enjoy my chat with Sarah Wilson of Chancery Design. Sarah, I want to welcome you to the Designer Within podcast.
Speaker 2:Hi, how are you? I'm so excited to be here with you.
Speaker 1:I am so good, I'm so happy to have you here. I think you and I just have our own private podcast when we see each other in settings outside of a recording, so we were both just like why don't we just turn the microphone on and actually record something Exactly exactly.
Speaker 1:So, as usual, I've given my little bio about you, which is the more professional version. I always like for my guests to give a bit more personalized version, because you do have a really interesting background and an interesting way that you sort of meandered your way, like most of us do, into interior design.
Speaker 2:So tell me about that.
Speaker 1:Tell everyone listening about how you did that, and it is a second career for you as well.
Speaker 2:I would almost dare say it's a third career for me because I actually I love design. I've always designed my own home and always really thought to myself like I wonder if there's a career here. I wonder how I could transition to doing it in business for someone else. Because you know, when you do it for yourself, like the time is free, you're meandering, you're finding things, you're putting it together a little bit more slowly. But my mom actually had an upholstery shop when I was young and always redid our home. She sews. We were always in dresses, their drapes, everything. Our house was already always well-dressed, so it comes as a second language to me.
Speaker 2:When I went to college I got a degree in graphics. I did that for a while and then I decided like I think I want to try to get into interior design. So I went back to school for my bachelor's and actually got an individualized degree where I was taking a lot of art classes, some architecture classes. I did furniture design, carpentry class, like I really just explored. But at that time, once I graduated, I found that there weren't many schools who are accepting non-interior design degree people for a master's. Because that's what I wanted to do. I just wanted to go get a master's degree. So I had my son and I just thought to myself like I really want to give this kid the world. I'm really great at computers. What can I do in that arena that will pay well, so I never have to tell him no to anything that he wants. And so I got an IT degree and I did that for about 10 years and I was fine with it, because I'm an introvert and at the time I was working in a silo, just me in a desk and not necessarily interacting so much offline. And then here comes Scrum, here comes Agile. You're in meetings all day, just chat, chat, chatting, and at the end of the day I was just so tired and I'm traveling to and from work two hours each way because I lived in California and I just got to a point where I'm like I think I'm going to have a nervous breakdown, like this is like so much and I'm saying that in all seriousness like it was just becoming a lot for me. And I was coming up on the vesting of my retirement fund and I'm like, hey, here's an idea. I can go back to school, I can use my retirement fund to live while I'm in school and then I can just transition, and so that's exactly what I did.
Speaker 2:I found a program at FITM, which is the Fashion Institute of Design and Merchandising in LA, for people who already had a degree. It didn't have to be interior design, and so I would only be taking about one year's worth of class to be done, and it actually was less because I had taken all those classes for the individualized degree. So I got to remove a lot of things. So I went. I had a really great time. The program was excellent. The chairperson was older like me, and so you know we could talk more like on a colleague level than you know student to professor. And at the end of my time there she recommended me to this program.
Speaker 2:It's called Chairing Styles and it's a program where there is a textile designer that designs a textile, a fashion designer who has to make a gown out of the textile, and then a furniture interior designer would design a chair using the fabric, and so there were 10 of us who participated in that, and that was actually the first time I went to market, because I don't know if you remember, lori and Kelly had that design camp interior design camp, yes. So they invited us, the 10 of us, to come and participate in interior design camp. And so we went to Las Vegas market. We did the camp, we walked around the market and I was like, yes, oh my god, yes it just like sat, yeah, it sat in my soul like this is what I've been waiting for, and so we did the show.
Speaker 2:Then, when I left school, I already knew I didn't want to work for someone. I knew I wanted to go out on my own, but I did kind of want to have an idea of how business was being run. So I worked for someone for four months before launching out into the greater stratosphere.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's smart. Now, gosh, okay, there's so much there, because I feel like a lot of people did that path and I did too. So you had your mom and you had this sort of love for fabrics and all those things. So it was in you, right, it was instilled in you. When you say that you had burnout and sort of you know these issues sort of bubbling to the surface in your IT world, were they always there? And you sort of just kept shoving them down? Because I'm wondering if people listening might be thinking the same thing. Maybe they're in a career that they're like oh I really want to do interior design and I don't know how to do it, and maybe they're trying to recognize those signals. But was it always there or did it come later on? And then you just sort of just kept pushing it, pushing it, pushing it.
Speaker 2:No, I actually think that it was always there because, number one, I'm terrible at nine to five. Always there Because, number one, I'm terrible at nine to five. Like I feel like it's difficult for creativity to be put into a box of time, and so that's one thing, and then it just was, I don't know like. I think the rigidity was was the main thing, and then just being over people every single day. So I know that there were nights I would just be lying in bed and being like Lord. I know there has to be another way to live, because this just doesn't flow with who I think I am as a person.
Speaker 2:You know there's some people who love, they love going to work, they love the structure, but I'm not, I'm not and I've never been that person. And so, yeah, it was there for a while and I was pushing it down Cause, like I said, I was a single mom. My kid needs to eat. I don't have the luxury of, just, you know, going off into whatever. And so it was there for a long time and I was just seeking, like, different solutions of how can I extract myself but still afford life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what were you doing to get the outlet for design? Were you just doing things for yourself, for friends, for family around? I mean I? I was just like, oh, anything around my house, I would do it. Anything around my house, you or my mom or my friend. I'm like what do you need? Okay, I'm there. Were you doing the same thing?
Speaker 2:That's exactly me. I tell people all the time like if I move into an apartment, guaranteed I'm not even thinking about getting my security deposit back because I'm going to paint, I'm going to put stuff up on the wall, I'm going to do all the things because I live here and I want to feel like I live here. So, yeah, everybody who knows me knows my college roommates would call me like hey, I just bought my condo, can you help me? And I would do it. So yeah, always.
Speaker 1:Yeah, creativity always finds an outlet, it always finds a way to get to the surface. And I agree with you. I think that most people start, you know, those first careers just because of necessity or because of a quote unquote have to, like, you know, I did it because the world said, oh, you have to do a business degree. So I was like, well, I don't want to do that, have to do a business degree. So I was like, well, I don't want to do that. Well, the world says you had to. So I did. And then I was like I hated every minute of it. And then I still wanted to do the creativity. And then some people do it out of necessity. But I'm telling you, your true self finds its way to the surface and then, when it does what happens, you literally excel. And when you are your true self, you shine in ways that you probably, I'm sure you never shined the way that you do now when you were doing IT.
Speaker 2:Well, I wouldn't say that.
Speaker 1:And the only reason I wouldn't say that is because I don't mean as a human being, I mean as your talent.
Speaker 2:No, no, no. So what I'm saying is like a lot of the procedure that I used when I was in IT. I'm really great at computers, so I'm actually really great at computers, so a lot of what I took from IT, the structure I do, I use it in interior design and I think it's to my benefit, because a lot of people are very creative but they don't have a process to their creativity, and so that was one thing I will say. I was amazing in my IT career, and I'm not even kidding, yeah.
Speaker 1:I believe you.
Speaker 2:So what I did was tested software and in my time testing software I found so many bugs that no one had found previously. Nothing new was ever introduced. I learned how to do automated testing. I was amazing at it but it just like I said, once they brought in like the whole structure of people all day, meetings, all day.
Speaker 1:I was done yeah, no, I agree with you there and you just hit on something that I wanted to to touch on later and we might as well talk about it now. But it is that set of skills that you will bring from one thing to the other. I call it the sliding scale of skills, where it's like you just slide that scale until you find that skill set that you bring from whatever part of your life that you want to apply now and and you do you can and you will find things that you're like I'm never going to use that from a former career and, just like you said, you look back now and you probably maybe you didn't know that you were bringing things from it into design, but you're probably seeing it through processes in other ways.
Speaker 1:But how specifically have you found and I and I think other people might be again looking for insight and things like that to help them but how specifically have you found and I think other people might be again looking for insight and things like that to help them out but how specifically have you found? Is it just the structure of it? Is it just the processes? And maybe it's just being more clear cut, because I know in IT you guys are very straight to the point there's no beating around the bush with you IT people Right?
Speaker 2:Well, number one, I did my own website. I didn't have to hire someone to do it so, and I maintain all of the stuff behind the scenes. But the main thing that I noticed. So for my firm I use Studio Designer and the way Studio Designer flows is the same way that my software flowed. Like you got to dump a bunch of data up front and it kind of just like flows to every module. So a bunch of test data, then I have these tests that I'm running, then it gets the results, then I report. Studio is the same, like I put in all of the items, then you know it's paid for. I put in all of that stuff.
Speaker 2:The only part of Studio I would say that I am not so great at is the finances, and that's why I have my sister to do it for me. But yeah, like the software. Just a lot of people are like, oh, it's too structured, I can't figure it out. But for me I was like, oh, this is the cadence of how I'm used to working, and so what? Nine years in business and I've always used it no-transcript system that makes more sense to them.
Speaker 1:It's just like what clicks with you right? What's?
Speaker 2:clicking with you.
Speaker 1:And then that's the way to go with it. My next question is I guess it's more of a statement really but what did you find Cause?
Speaker 1:here's how I did when I went back to school later as well for design, when I went back, I found that I was there for a purpose and I and there was a lot of young kids there trust me and I was like, get out of my way. Like daddy's in the house, I'm here to learn. Like don't be silly, Don't be, I'm not going out to park, this is not about partying for me right literally like were you there for the same reason where you're just like no, I'm same, no same thing.
Speaker 2:I'm like you guys parents maybe have money to be messing around you're like missing class. I'm like assignment on. I'm in the evening, I'm doing my work, I'm turning it in, I'm getting A's like what do you have to teach me? I'm ready to soak it in, like Like give it to me, give it all to me. I love it For sure, for sure.
Speaker 1:So you found the benefit in going back to get this education right, because I know a lot of people don't necessarily have a quote-unquote formal education with design. What other benefits did you find For someone who might again, I love people who can listen to stories like yours and say, oh, this might be something that I want to follow, a path that I want to follow what other benefits did you find specifically for going back to get a formal education, versus just someone who said, oh, I'm going to hang my shingle because I love design, which there's no right or wrong in either one of those of course, right, you're right, right.
Speaker 2:um, I think mainly the thing that was good for me was having the ability to talk to professionals who were already deep in their career paths and say to them like no, really. Like, how does this work? Like, what showrooms can I go to? Like, when you go to market, what are you looking for? Like, I was uber focused on graduating with tools to transition into my business, so I wasn't necessarily having like chatty conversations. I was pulling all industry knowledge I could get from my professors and because I was of a similar age to them, they were open with talking to me about everything. Like our last business class, I came out of that class with my resale license. I had opened accounts at the PDC. Like I was ready at the end of that.
Speaker 1:Sarah is not playing. I bet your notebook was. I bet it was so thick of notes from class. Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. The first time we went to market, I was the only one with a buyer's badge because I had my resale license and I had gone on and registered and they were like oh no, you can't come into the showroom, but they were like oh you, you can go, you have the buyer's badge Look down, I'm ready. Yeah, I was like this is a once in a lifetime opportunity and I'm going to take it for all it's worth.
Speaker 1:And you did and you jumped in. Now you mentioned that you worked for someone else for around four months or so when you went out into the actual design world. What were you hoping to gain from that? Was it just experience of seeing how a firm was operating? Was it watching someone else in the throes of a design firm? What were you hoping to get, and did you get what you were looking for when you did?
Speaker 2:that I was. I definitely got what I was looking for. I was mainly looking for, like, presentation of pricing. How are you presenting to your clients, how are you deciding what things cost? Like, what is your markup, if anything? Like, what kind of presentations are you putting together for people?
Speaker 1:Let me guess the things they didn't teach you in school, right? Maybe, perhaps Right.
Speaker 2:Definitely with the pricing. Like you know, school is void of pricing. They're like design, whatever. And also I wanted to learn interacting with trades. They definitely don't teach you that in design school. I want to know okay, like I have an idea, who do I get to make it? How do I find trades that I can trust, Just all of those types of things. And four months was enough for me to get.
Speaker 1:Wow, okay, I did the same and mine was about two years, two and a half years, I would say. When I did it, did you learn maybe some things not to do? Just curious during that time.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Then you're like no.
Speaker 1:Sarah will not bring this into her business.
Speaker 2:Okay, treated her trades terribly and she was constantly having to replace them because, just, it was poor treatment. And so the thing that I learned is to cherish good trades when you find them, and treat them like the people that they are, because, literally, I could have all of the brilliant ideas in the world, and if I don't find a trade to execute them in the manner that I want, it's useless.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that. So when you did decide to hang your shingle and it's like it's time to open up your firm, and here we go, we're going in, did you go in with a definitive plan of you know cause? You obviously love colorful design, you love to bring color in design. Was it always that way and was it always something that you wanted to do? Did you know, going in, did you have this vision and you knew exactly? Okay, because talk to me more about that, because I know a lot of designers and I really wish more people would have a definitive look, a definitive outreach on their design business, because when we design for everybody, we really design for no one.
Speaker 1:And then we get so watered down, I feel that we just lose who we are. I was at market recently and I was on a panel and someone in the audience asked a question and she said how do you find vendors for all the clients who want all these different styles? And I said you don't. You find the vendors for clients in your aesthetic. She said no.
Speaker 1:I love them all I said, it doesn't matter, you have to stay in your lane. So I love that you did know your lane, but how did you get that definitive answer right away, because I know a lot of people still struggle with it.
Speaker 2:Well, remember I said I've always been designing and so I kind of just know what I lean to. And my mom and I my mom used to live in Huntsville. She retired, she lives in St Lucia now but we used to go like our thing to do was go to like, like Hancock fabric, joanne's big upholstery shops and just like, go through and look at the fabric. We weren't buying anything. Sometimes we would, but we would just go through and look at the fabrics. We would buy patterns, we would make dresses. So it's like I guess my background of fabric really like and fabric can just change. And plus, you know what I'm from the caribbean, like it's.
Speaker 2:It's huge on color, like saint croix, saint thomas they used to be owned by the dutch and I don't know if you're familiar with dutch architecture, but it is bright, it's the pinks, it's the yellows and the buildings in downtown are like, brightly colored. Same in Aruba if you've ever been to Aruba you've seen those buildings. So color is just, has always been a thing. You know, the only thing that I like white is I love a white shirt and I love a white dress. Like I used to tell people like I am a white shirt whore. I have a closet full of shirts and 95% of them are white.
Speaker 1:Really.
Speaker 2:Absolutely Okay.
Speaker 1:I would have never guessed that about you. That's so funny, absolutely, yeah, oh, interesting.
Speaker 2:I feel like design should be an expression of who you are as a person. It should be full of color. I mean, if you look at nature, it's full of color. I feel like neutral design is the stripping away of life. It's just so blase. And I think outside of the United States there are very few countries that design in white like that. Everyone is full of rich colors, whether it's their national costume or the way they do their houses. Like everybody loves color except us.
Speaker 1:Well, I think it scares a lot of people. You know, I think a lot of people don't know how to even begin with it or how to mix the colors together.
Speaker 1:But, I think my takeaway outside of the fact that you're very good at it, but my takeaway is that you, number one, knew who you were. Number two, you stayed true to who you were from the get-go, from the beginning, and you didn't try to be someone else because it would have been very easy for you to say, oh, everyone else is doing this, Everyone else is doing this other design aesthetic, doing this other color palette or whatever. That's easy, right, Because on social media right now, what do you see? Right?
Speaker 1:It's like scroll, scroll, scroll, scroll scroll. You can't tell some of them apart, right, but what happens, sarah? When you see something that's different, you stop the scroll.
Speaker 2:Right, the scroll stops and it's different.
Speaker 1:You're like, oh, that's nice, yeah, and that's what you have, and I've even commented on your stuff before because it is scroll-stopping design, because I'm like, excuse me, ma'am, that's not, that was not, that is not what I expected to see today. It was like gorgeous, right, you know, but but thank you. But it is because you do it so well and that comes from a passion that comes from your, your true, genuine, authentic interest in that, and I and I try to hammer that home with people all the time. It's just like, please, people, everybody, no matter what your career, but especially design you, where we are so creative and where it is just truly a big, you're taking your heart and you're laying it right there on the table in front of everybody, if that is not a true heart and it's not authentic, then you're just wasting your time, right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, usually like and for me, like starting a design, I usually start with either wallpaper or fabric and what I do is I actually just go to the design center. We only have four floors here, but I just walk every floor, I go to every showroom and I just gather samples. And then I come back and I sit and think about what I was told, what I saw in the consultation, like who this person is, what were they wearing, what's in their house already, and then I just start crafting a story for them.
Speaker 1:Oh, I love that. I love that you said story. That's great Because it does become a story that you're weaving throughout that process. Right? Do your clients contact you knowing that you? Obviously, I hope that they do that. You love that. They love color that you love color because if they're calling, you're like, do a beige room for me.
Speaker 2:You're like I'm not your gal, right? So usually this is what I do. If someone contacts me, number one, I get a free 30 minute call with them because I want to feel the vibe yeah like. Are we going to get along? What are your expectations? Have you used a designer before? Are your budget expectations up to par with the service that I'm going to provide you? And every single time that I have not done that, it doesn't work out.
Speaker 1:They're like.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, is that? So I try to adhere to that really well and then, believe it or not, I get most of my clients from Instagram, so they are already seeing what it is that I bring to the table. And even when I don't get one, if it's a referral from another designer, it's a cold call. I always send them to go. I was like go look at my account on Instagram, go look at my website, see what you think and then, if you're still interested, we'll move forward.
Speaker 1:That's great. Yeah, because randomly it's a tire kicker who's like'm just going to find the best price. It's like no, no, you need to find the client who's jiving with you and the designer, and the vibe has to be there. The synergy has to be there, the chemistry, and so I've even started working into my questionnaire, into my conversations what's your favorite project that we've done?
Speaker 1:And I make them do homework I literally make them do homework, because I want to know that they're not just like trying to get the cheapest price out there. What else do you do on the upfront? Are you clear? Do you talk about pricing, for instance? Do you? Talk about do you have minimums? I know you charge for your consultations. I saw that right on your website, so I love that you do that. Are you that transparent and that clear with your clients from the beginning, or do you leave a little magic to you know?
Speaker 2:unveil as you go along. Um, the only magic I unveil with them is I I don't give a pricing until I've done the consultation, because I just say to them, like I don't know what the work is that's going to be involved in this project, and if I give you a price and it's too high, you might not call me. And then if I give you a price and it's too low, then and I give you another price, then you'll you have that first price set in your mind, and so I just kind of give them a general idea of cost. Like I did a kitchen last year. This is how much the design fee was for it. If you're comfortable with that, then let's keep talking. If not, maybe you think about it. Maybe we don't do this. Just I'm pretty transparent. I'm not transparent where my pricing is concerned, like some designers are like I'm cost transparent. I'm not transparent where my pricing is concerned, like some designers are like, oh, I'm cost plus 20. I don't tell people what that?
Speaker 2:is when I go into Target I don't know what Target is upcharging. That's not my business. What is my business is the price that's on the tag, and so same with me. I say, hey, what I charge you for is what I charge you for.
Speaker 1:What I do love that you just said is that you have, you know your data and that you know that you did this kitchen that costs X and you did this bathroom that costs Y, and you can pull that out when you're speaking with clients, and I think that is just invaluable information to be able to relate that back to people, because you know there are very few projects that are 100% different than what we've done before.
Speaker 1:Right, I mean, there are some, but you can always find some sort of like oh that's the Smith project, or oh, that's the. Jones project right and it's nice to have that and I wish more people would just sort of stop and we tend to just go to the next project right Without thinking about the past projects. And if we just stopped and did that little review of those past?
Speaker 1:ones we be like oh yes, let's make some notes and commit that to memory, right? Exactly does that help people? Does that bring their guard down, or are some people like hell? No, I'm moving on.
Speaker 2:See you later, alligator and then it's a bit of both the people who really. There are people who have done a bit of research before they reach out to you, like they know a general idea. So once I tell them, they're're like okay, yeah, that was along the line of what I was thinking. And then there are other people who are like like I just had a lady and she was like, oh, I thought the $500 for consultation was the cost that you were going to charge me to do the design. I was like I'm designing four rooms for you. Like no, ma'am, I'm like wow, and that was one of the people that I hadn't had the 30 minute free conversation with. She was a referral and she just called me up out of the blue and I didn't at the time. She called me. I don't know I was doing something.
Speaker 1:I didn't take the time to talk her through it and so, yeah, People tend to jump to conclusions, I find you know, until I've said this before. But I remember doing a big, huge home in-home consultation. It was in Beverly Hills and it was a huge, huge house and I did the consultation and it was before I started explaining things before, kind of what you're saying right and I do the consultation.
Speaker 1:he paid for the consultation, of course, and then it was over and I sent over the proposal and I think it was like 50,000, and he was like, oh, I thought this was like 50 bucks an hour, that's what I Googled.
Speaker 2:And I was like, no, I don't, I'm sorry, I don't know who you've been Googling Exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:The standards across our industry are so strange and so up and down and so many people are afraid to talk about money, and then that leads clients to say, oh, I'm just going to, either you know, google something that's incorrect or make up something that I feel is correct. Right such as oh all designers pass along their pricing right. That's another misconception that people have.
Speaker 2:I think absolutely yeah I mean, let's not get it twisted. It is not comfortable to talk about the budget, it absolutely is not. But it's more uncomfortable to go in and get excited about the project and then for them to be like no, I'm like, even though you just paid for these last two hours, I still wasted these two hours. There are people who have consultation as their business model and they're okay, just doing consultation. I'm going out to the consultation so I can book the job. So it's kind of disappointing when you're like, wow, this would have been an amazing project. And here we are.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, your plan is to have it move on to the next phase, whether it be a full scale design or renovation or new build or whatever. But yeah, you're right Some people have it as part of their business model of five consultations per week, right yeah. Yeah, I'm with you. I sort of get invested in it.
Speaker 2:I'm like, oh, the thing in my mouth salivating right, Right. I'm already like, based on what they're telling me, I'm already like I know where I need to order some of this and this. I'm thinking things. And then they're like, oh, is that how much? And I explained it to her because this was a retired OB and I said it's just like coming into your office for an office visit. That's one cost, but if I have to do a procedure with you, I got to pay for that. Like there's another larger cost to the procedure. So yeah, no, that's brilliant.
Speaker 1:I love that. I love that you sort of took it and turned it so that she can understand it in her own words. And I think a lot of times, designers, we feel like we're just creatives and we're not salespeople, but we're always, we're always selling, and I try to replace the word selling with serving it in my head If I feel like I'm serving that person, really, truly giving them something of value, giving them something that's going to change their lives and you've probably seen where clients cry when you do the reveal right.
Speaker 1:You know you've seen how it really is serving. It makes a difference in lives and I try to always go back to that when I'm giving the price, when I'm talking about something or when I'm giving this big six figure proposal to a client for design fee. Okay, here you go. This is $110,000, but here's what you're going to get out of this.
Speaker 1:But that's what I try to always remember is like you're giving them something so valuable that no one else could give them, and that is something that you truly are serving them with. Have you had to change anything over the years where you're like, oh, yeah, okay, absolutely. You started one way and then you're like, oh Sarah, let me change this, because then maybe this wasn't working so well. Anything come to mind along that route?
Speaker 2:Let me tell you something. My first client paid $125 for my consultation and I designed their kitchen, dining room and family room for $1,750.
Speaker 1:$1,750?
Speaker 2:$1,750. Oh, because I did not know.
Speaker 1:Damn you, oh, Because I did not know. Damn you fit him.
Speaker 2:That has definitely changed, rather than the money. Listen every time, I think about it. And I didn't even get any professional pictures at the end of it because I didn't know, I didn't even think about that. And then, shortly after that, I started listening to Luann's podcast and then they were like this is kind of how he has to do it and I was like dang, I missed the opportunity because the kitchen was really good. But things that I've changed. That 30 minute free call, I didn't have that in the beginning. I used to chart let people go ahead.
Speaker 1:Can I ask you about that before you jump onto that, Because some people do 10 minutes, some people do 15. Do you call it a discovery call? What do you call it First of all? What do you call that call for people? Do you have a name for it? Yeah, free 30 minute call.
Speaker 2:Okay, that's exactly what it says. Okay, perfect, perfect.
Speaker 1:And then I found that 30 minutes is the happy timeframe for you where you can get enough information, because some people stop at 15, some people stop at 20. It's always interesting to hear the time frame that people have.
Speaker 2:I do 30 because, like, at the beginning I get them to talk to me about their project and how they arrived at wanting to use me. Then I use about another 10 to 15 minutes talking about my procedure and how it goes Okay, and at the end I let them ask me any questions that they want. I use that time like we've been talking now I'm joking around with them and then I just say to them like if you're still interested, I'll send you a link to book the consultation. Most people say yes, even though some people don't. But it just kind of puts them at a choice point and I find like 30 minutes is perfect.
Speaker 1:Okay, good, good to know, Good to know. I always find it interesting because sometimes you say 15 and it ends up being 30 anyway. So it's always just, I guess it's nice just to be, and some people are afraid to give away too much information on that quote, unquote, free call, but you have to give enough to entice them, right, right, yeah, yeah, okay, anyway, sorry, you were saying other things that you changed in your business. You know I change a lot of stuff, like I'm not responsible for your kids in the house when I'm there doing your renovation, you know.
Speaker 1:I mean all kinds of things. Do you have a long, lengthy agreement? Have you changed that? I'm sure you've changed things in your agreement over the years.
Speaker 2:I've changed things in my agreement but honestly, my agreement stays around the same. What I have done is change things when things happen from a business perspective, like if oh shoot, I didn't have a coverage for this, then I put it in my contract.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's always nice to revisit it after a project is over. I find to say, oh, what did we miss during this project? Not just your agreement, but your processes, right? Just? Things that went along and maybe pricing. You know, remember that time when tariffs were a thing and tariffs were all, and when they kind of still are, but when they were literally just like, every day you got another email like 10% here, 5% there, and it was like, oh, my God.
Speaker 1:So like it was, like I was always, you know, trying to keep up to date with that, so it's always good for everybody to just stay on top of all of those things, and really you can't just ever say this is my agreement this is it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is my process.
Speaker 1:I'm done with it. This is my business for the next 10 years.
Speaker 2:I'm done with no, no, no, no, no, no, if you're going to truly be a business owner.
Speaker 1:You really do have to have to evolve a pulse of that right. So you said something to me and I'm going to read it verbatim and I love it. I want you to explain to everybody what you meant by that. You said have you really done your job as a designer if you don't design something for your client that is outside of the expectations that they had for the project? So tell me what you meant by that, so that other people can maybe glean something from that.
Speaker 2:Okay. So in the beginning I used to ask people to send me their Pinterest boards and then they'd be like I like this sofa, I like this, I like that. So basically, they saw another designer's design and kind of wanted me to recreate it. Right, and I just said to myself, like I don't want people to know what it is I'm designing for them, because if that's the case, they could kind of just do it themselves. And then I become like the sourcing person. What I want is a design that's that, while it's true to who they are, I want it to blow their mind. I want them to be like I never would have thought about this, but this is so amazing, this is so freaking good. Like. I even want there to be a little bit of sometimes convincing that I have to do with them to get them outside of the box of design that they've placed themselves in. You know, like I know you wouldn't ordinarily do this, but look at how good the flow of this will be. And once they like see it, they get it, and when it's done, they're always like.
Speaker 2:My friends came over here, they couldn't believe it. They were like it looks like you, but I know you could have never done this and that's the experience I want to live them like. I'm not. I'm not flipping houses, you know. I don't want to have a mass appeal, I don't. I tell them, I don't want anyone to come to your house and be like oh yeah, I saw that sofa at Pottery Barn. Like no shade on Pottery Barn. But I want them to have like a completely unique experience in their home. I want them to come down in 10 years and be like, even though this design is dated, it's still so amazing. And I might need to. You know just some things, but I can't believe. I live here. This is my house, this is my life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and it's really probably no fault of the clients, right? They only know what they know right, it's not their fault. They know what they see. They see that same scroll that we see right when we're looking through, seeing the same thing Exactly. Exactly, I mean there are a few people that even have, you know, some television shows that will go unnamed. That I'm just like oh my. God, Literally literally. This is like cardboard cutout of what you did last week and what you did the week before and what you did the week before, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And it's like, oh my God. But all right, let's just keep on going with this and making bank from it.
Speaker 2:Right, right, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 1:For them anyway. And then you know all of us out there who are trying to be different. People look at us with their head kind of turned sideways sometimes Right. Until you find that right client who's like, oh my God, I get it, I get it, I understand it and. I understand it. And that is, when do you feel a validation at that point, of a kinship, of a synergy with that client, when you're like, oh my God, they get me. It sort of feels great, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:It feels, great it feels great for me on both sides, because it feels great for me, but then I feel happy for them.
Speaker 2:Oh, I love that. Oh, my God, you're about to get such an amazing design because you have enough trust to let me do the thing that I do. Like I'm not being braggadocious or whatever, but I'm an amazing designer and the extents of it have not been seen right. But it's like when someone lets me do my thing, the thing that I can bring to you, yeah, it'll be amazing. I love it. Oh, what does that mean? That means I'm probably never going to have as many clients as other designers and maybe I have to supplement my income with something else because I'm not getting as many clients in a row.
Speaker 1:But it's worth it to me, no, I think you just need to charge more for the clients you are getting, and then we're going to have fewer clients, but we'll talk about that later.
Speaker 2:You're right.
Speaker 1:You're right Because you are good and I want you to charge more. So then we're going to get fewer clients and just make even more money.
Speaker 1:But you mentioned a word that I think is really important and that is trust, and trust doesn't happen, obviously, immediately when we're trying to get a client to either listen to a design plan that we have or to spend a certain amount of money. Do you have any ways that you would lend some advice to people for gaining trust with a client, or do you have something that you do, a process that you have for getting that trust with a client? Because I know it doesn't happen right away and I think it does take time.
Speaker 1:But what do you do? How do you get a?
Speaker 2:client to trust you, to take these chances with color and with risky design in their eyes, Wow. Well, you know what? Sometimes my clients ask me for references and I give them and I just say like here call these people, find out what their experience was.
Speaker 1:Do you do mood boards, for instance, or do you do a full design plan? How do you let them know like everything's going?
Speaker 2:to work out okay in the end, like how do you?
Speaker 1:say yeah, that's what I guess is what I'm trying to say, like, okay, these colors are going to be gorgeous together okay here's why you should trust me with this. How do you do that?
Speaker 2:okay. So I, when I'm doing a presentation, I have three, three phases of it. I have the mood board where I'm showing them everything, then I have the actual physical samples and I try to get samples of every single thing that I'm bringing as an option in terms of like to the fact, like I have a relationship with my former Kohler rep where I'll be like I'm using this faucet Do you have one that I can borrow to bring to the clients?
Speaker 1:Even a faucet, okay.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and metal samples from all my lighting companies that I can get. I'm just bringing samples of everything because I want them to touch it, I want them to see how it goes with everything, and then I always make a SketchUp model that incorporates everything that I'm presenting so that they can see it in their room and see what it's going to look like. I used to do renders. I don't do them so much anymore, I just use SketchUp and, honestly, if I could figure out how to use SketchUp with Oculus, I'd be done.
Speaker 1:I have a feeling there's a new pathway that Sarah Wilson is going to be working on Right, right, right In your free time. Just come up with a brand new software system that we can all use.
Speaker 2:If you don't mind, Come up with a brand new software system that we can all use, if you don't mind, if you can just do that Sure, I'm on it. Don't you have some free?
Speaker 1:time between like 2 and 5 am that you can devote to this, and I think too, sarah, probably the other ingredient that you're not mentioning here is that energy and that passion that you're probably emoting when you're doing the presentation, because I find when a designer is truly excited about a presentation, you almost get goosebumps when you're presenting it to a client, right, and do you find that that is that last ingredient that puts it over the top to get them to buy into the design plan?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because you know how a lot of times people are like, oh I wouldn't think about that, but wow, I could see how you put it together, I could see how good it is or like, if they're not like, okay. So I was working for a builder recently. It didn't work out, but there was a client who it was his mom's house Wallpaper everywhere. He was like I hate wallpaper.
Speaker 1:I'm crying.
Speaker 2:But in my presentation I brought some wallpaper and I said to them, like okay, your foyer, there's nothing fun going on in here. Like, why don't we just put a little bit of wallpaper on the ceiling Then, that way you don't feel overwhelmed with it? But it's just like, and he was like. So I said I have three wallpapers here and we're just going to let you pick which one you like. And he ended up picking one that he really, really liked. He was like I never would have thought that I would be here and it's on their ceiling.
Speaker 2:So I think that my passion for it, I'm like it's just a little something. It's just a little something like when someone comes into your house and they look up, they're like oh wow, that's unexpected. I'm like you don't have to go crazy with it everywhere, but just a little hint of it. And he was like yeah, I could see that. So I just think like I talk to people's emotions as opposed to their logical brain. And sometimes people are like well, how is this going to happen? And I say hey, hey, hey, hey, hey, just not our conversation to have Like my husband is my electrician. And they'll be like oh, these lights, how's that going to happen. I'm like hey, hey, hey, hey, that's between the electrician and the work. We don't worry about those types of things. We are here for the good times, the good looking things, and we let the trades worry about how they're going to figure out how it's going to be done.
Speaker 1:And then they're like okay, Sarah says it's okay, so I'm going to be with it.
Speaker 2:I'm like, if you really really want to know, have that conversation with the electrician.
Speaker 1:I'm not the person to tell you about that, because that's not my expertise. I love it. I love it. Speaking of trades and vendors, you mentioned earlier that you like to keep a nice, solid relationship with them and you found that that's helped you over the years, it sounds like, with your company and with growing your business and so forth. What are the keys to a good relationship with a vendor or with a trades person, and what have you found that that has done to help you grow your business?
Speaker 2:Okay, let's talk about trades. I always am very respectful of my trades. If I say I'm going to be somewhere at a certain time, I'm going to be there at a certain time. If they ask me to do something, I'm going to do it. I always say to them, like I'm proposing something to you, You're the expert. Tell me if it can or cannot be done, Like I never assume that it can be done. And then I also say like okay, well, can we talk through this and see if we can come up? So I kind of make them part of the process, so they're not just like my labor, Like I kind of get them invested also in the projects.
Speaker 2:And number two, my trade vendors have a contract with the clients and not with me. I say to them, number one, I'm not a GC, but number two, like I'm not going to charge the clients more on your labor that I have nothing to do with. So they have freedom to talk to the client about everything. But we've worked together so much that I don't ever feel like they're trying to steal my clients. And, honestly, more often than not they get more work from the clients. Oh, since you're here, can you do this and I don't have any problem with that. I mean, like they want to eat too, right, and so, since I'm not upcharging anything, there's no like, oh no, if they talk to the client, they'll know that the client will know that I'm charging them more for this labor. It's transparent all the way across.
Speaker 1:Do you find that the trades scratch your back too and send business your way? Because sometimes, for me personally, I find it tends to be a one-way street sometimes.
Speaker 2:It is Okay.
Speaker 1:And that really annoys me frankly, sometimes, where I'm like, hey, more business for you, more business for you, and I'm like really no, one's asked for a designer.
Speaker 2:Not one, not one person has asked for a designer Like come on, come on now, come on.
Speaker 1:I don't buy that, so I I didn't know if anybody else was having that same experience I.
Speaker 2:I think there I've only had one trade that did it the opposite, as my window treatment lady when I lived in california. She was great about um sending business my way. But no, I think it's because of the way I run my business. Even though I'm not a g, I run my projects like a GC, and so I get the client first and then I secure the trades. So I don't know. I don't know how they're doing I don't get much business that way.
Speaker 2:But now my vendors, that's a different story. I get business from my vendors. They'll be like, hey, there's someone in your area looking for a designer, do you want to be considered? But I interact with my vendors a lot Like even though I'm a solo firm. I get them here to my home office to do all their presentations. I get the samples. When they have events, I'm like be sure to invite me. So I keep very close relationships with my vendors and if I have an opportunity to display their product in like a new and innovative way, I'm always willing to like pass pictures along so that they can put it wherever they want to put it, because I just feel like my vendors are willing to bend over backwards for me, more so than I find with other people.
Speaker 1:The rep for that company really is the lifeline to the product, to the company, to the person at the top of the chain right, and so it's nice to keep that relationship strong and secure and to keep it well-bonded. I think you do a great job with that and I go to market and I'm like, oh, sarah has a piece here in this showroom.
Speaker 1:I'm like, okay, well, okay, sarah designed another piece, so for people and I love it and they're beautiful and you seem to have nurtured those relationships in a way that have gotten you some product designs, and I know a lot of people dream about having products from vendors, and I'm sure it's vendors that you love working with right, right yeah.
Speaker 1:So how do you? How did you get that going? What did that process look like? Would you recommend other people do it? You know all the goody goody details of that. That people who might want to entertain that idea tell them about the behind the scenes of that process for you, because it's really interesting.
Speaker 2:Honestly, I have always been a just ask person. So let me say like, for instance, I did the one room challenge and I pay for very little in the room because I just asked. I asked everybody and when someone said no, I just asked someone else like hey, I love your product, I've been using it. Here is some examples of how I've used it. I'm doing this. There's a spotlight on it. I'd love to showcase your product would you be interested in, even if it's a discount or whatever. And so I take the same tack when I'm approaching someone for product, like hey, I really love your product. I love to design furniture. I'm probably not doing it right Because I usually I mean, it's just a piece that I don't get any monetary thing on it, so there's probably a piece that's missing. So I don't know if I'd use me as an example, but I just say like hey, I love your product. I'd love to do some collaboration with you. We've done a lot of business in the past. Would you be interested?
Speaker 1:Well, okay, that's very simple, that's very easy.
Speaker 2:Okay, see, there are people listening don't, don't wait.
Speaker 1:I mean sometimes just asking for that thing you want or that thing that you need, is just that answer? Okay, so now you need to just ask for the monetary, some money, you're right, you're right, you're right.
Speaker 2:I mean I put someone at kbiz I'm not gonna say who it is, we're not done with the yeah negotiation but I just said like, hey, I you guys know that I use your product almost exclusively. I'm always all over Instagram with you. I just started selling cabinets. I'd like to have like a capsule collection to present to my cabinet company. I couldn't think of a better company I'd love to do that with, and immediately they were like absolutely. And then started brainstorming ways that we could collaborate with each other. So sometime maybe next KBiz there'll be a collection of mine out there on the floor.
Speaker 1:Fabulous, fabulous.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I think if you come in well-prepared and with examples and a lot of people, just a lot of companies even, just want somebody to come in with not only just the concept but just a plan in place I find when I've done licensing it's like, okay, you come in with a plan in place. Here's the product. Here's how I want to market it, here's the idea I have behind it, and it's a solid plan. They're likely to say yes to that and then, if not, as you say, just move on to the next person.
Speaker 1:To the next person, that's just the way it is, because it's a good plan. That's how I got the book published, but it was like the same chapter over and, over and over.
Speaker 2:But you know, no one else knew that it was just a good chapter. They didn't take it. So, okay, yeah, no, that's brilliant yeah.
Speaker 1:You don't rest on your any sort of laurel at all. You really just jump out there and when you want something, you go for it, and I think that that is such a lesson to be learned. What's new Other than this, this little carrot that you just dangled in front of us? You have any new exciting things that you have that you want to do down the road, anything that you want to do to grow your company, any other expansions or anything? What do you have? I feel like there's something on your brain.
Speaker 2:Honestly, my new thing right now is this cabinet line, because I feel like that is one arena of my business. I had no idea what cabinetry costs. Like you go somewhere and someone gives you a price and then you're like, is there enough margin for me to price higher, is there not? And I was like I think I want to get into that because, honestly, I like to design stuff different for my clients and a lot of times, unless you're going like full custom, which not everyone can afford, then you can't do the thing that you really want to do. And so now this is just me taking it up another level of customization for my clients, whether it's going to be like color, whether it's like the actual design. And the cabinet company that I partner with is fabulous as far from a custom standpoint and they make the process so easy Like I've done cabinetry enough that I've already designed a couple of kitchens with them and I really just jumped on the software and started doing it.
Speaker 2:To tell you the honest truth, this is what I tell my husband I love creativity and that's just across the board. Like I'm looking for a welding class, I want to take glass blowing. I've done pottery and when I did the pottery, the girl was like, oh wow, you're really good. Have you done pottery before? I'm like no, I just I love creativity, and so for me, it's just about being able to jump in and do something. I'm probably going to find something this year. Actually, this year is my year of travel. I'm booking trips. I want to do a lot of international travel and go and see things. I would love to open a little shop that I didn't have to sit in. I don't want to sit in there.
Speaker 2:But just like sitting still providing like unique things that I found on my travels and integrating them into people's spaces for them, just like here's a piece of pottery, like something with a story behind it. So, yeah, like I'm going somewhere in June, july, august, september, october. I got to find something for November and December, but yeah, this is my year to just like really get out and travel. I just renewed my passport, I'm ready.
Speaker 1:When you look at it that way, creativity has no boundary right. It is completely open. And then so many times, I think we just get into a rut, especially when we're busy, of just doing the same thing over and over and over, and we don't give ourselves time to experiment and to learn and to really give ourselves time to, you know, be overwhelmed and to love and to just learn from all these different places. Right? I just think that that is what you're giving yourself time to do is to truly grow from these experiences, and I think that is what's going to make you come back from all this travel and have all kinds of other ideas and do all kinds of other fabulous things, and then we're gonna be like all right, Sarah, calm down now.
Speaker 1:We've done it, you know, one step at a time.
Speaker 2:That's what you know like people are always asking me like, oh, do you want to grow your firm? And I'm like, absolutely not. Like I'm going to be solo till I die, because I like the freedom of being solo. It's great to have a staff, but then it's you're kind of like tying yourself down to a place.
Speaker 2:Like now like there's a certain amount of overhead that I have to keep because I have staff. There's a certain schedule that I have to keep. Like me, now I'm on the schedule of Sarah. I don't like to work on Fridays. I don't work on Fridays. I never work on the weekends. If I travel, I take my laptop so that if there is work to be done, I can take care of it in the morning. But I just I'm at the age like I raised my kid. He's an adult. I just want to be free to. Oh hey, do you want to go do this? And I can just go do it.
Speaker 1:Do you as a solopreneur, do you limit the number of projects that you do to try to keep that balance, or do you take on everything that's inspiring to you?
Speaker 2:To be honest, I take on everything that's inspiring to me, but there is a certain limit after a while where I'm like, okay, I can't be effective if I take on more, because I am a solopreneur, that means I'm the person who has to go to look at each job site, and so I can't get crazy because I can't spend every day of every week at a job site. I think I did like six in 22, six really large ones, and it was a lot because they were kind of all going at the same time and I take projects within an hour radius of me, which in this area is a lot, and so I spent a lot of time on the road going from project to project to project, and I guess I'm limiting that now. I don't want to be. That was a little much.
Speaker 1:It was great, but it was a little much I can see how it would be and no outside help from any virtual assistance, something like that for you either. Just it's you, the tradespeople and the vendors, basically. And my sister on the account and your sister on the accounting side, right, right, right, right. Well, I always say when I was a solopreneur back in the day, I always used the term we anyway, because there always is a we. There always, literally, is a team of people around you, no matter if you have one person in your home office or 10 people in your big office.
Speaker 1:whatever, it is a team effort, no matter how you look at it Right but. I think that's inspiring to people to see that a solopreneur can take on this scale of projects, can take on their business. The way that you do can change lives. The way that you do can just be so successful. The way that you are, you're a true inspiration. I love your projects.
Speaker 2:I love you you know that, yeah we just have the best time.
Speaker 1:So tell everybody absolutely where they can find you online and see more of your beautiful things and you usually most of the trade shows as well. We usually pop up there as well, so they can find you there typically, but online where can they find you?
Speaker 2:I'm online everywhere, everywhere, at Chancelry, which I'm sure John is going to put in the notes because it's hard to spell yes, and I'm going to tell you the story about that. But I'm on Instagram, I'm on Facebook, I'm on Pinterest and, of course, my website, and I have a sprinkling of podcasts here and there.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, yes, yes, but I do, before we do close out, I do want to know the quick kind of reasoning behind the name of your business.
Speaker 2:Okay. So my family, my mom and my sisters and I were all very close and once upon a time I lived in Alabama do not recommend zero of 10. But every I'm seven, the offensive. So every Friday night we would be at my mom's house, we'd be sitting around, we have dinner and then we just chat and we all have boys, and so our boys and everything. And one Friday night my mom said I have a name for a business. If any of you guys decide that you want to go into business, then we're like Okay, well, what is it? And she said chancery. We're like, okay, where's what's that? So my older sister name is chantal, it's french, my name's sarah and my youngest sister is rachel, so chancery. It's like I love that, so that's it.
Speaker 1:And so, like my little sister with her accounting, business is chancery consulting it's beautiful, and really it's such a lovely name now that I know the history behind it and it means even more, so kudos to your mom for that right.
Speaker 2:She's trying to get royalties.
Speaker 1:The check is in the mail.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Or not. Except now no, well, sarah, this has been so much fun. Thank you so much fun. Thank you so much for taking the time out today.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me.
Speaker 1:I loved it. I loved it and go and check Sarah out online and I will put all the information, of course, in the show notes and I will see you soon, Sarah. Thanks again.
Speaker 2:All right, bye Thanks.
Speaker 1:Thanks for sticking with me to the end of the Designer Within podcast. It means the world to me. If you're ready to dive deeper into the topics that we've discussed here, be sure to check out my online coaching and courses program, DesignSuccessAcademycom. Here I will teach you everything you need to know to run your interior design business, from starting the project all the way to the end, including marketing and pricing your services for profit. And for more information on this podcast, including how to be a guest or my design services in general, go to JohnMcClainco. That's JohnMcClainco. See you soon, friend.
