Lessons Learned From An Industry Veteran

You're in for a real treat in this episode!
My talented friend Beth Kushnick is here and we are diving deep into her 30+ year career as a set decorator. Beth has honed her design chops starting with the original production of Little Shop Of Horrors on Broadway to TV shows and movies that I know that you have all seen today.

In this fun, enlightening episode we will discuss:

• The immediate parallels between set decorating and designing for residential clients.
• Beth's process for set decorating
• Why (and How) Beth lives by the mantra of always saying "yes" to everything!
• Fads: Friends or Foe? Beth and I weigh in
• Beth's high/low set decorating tips that you can implement in home design
• How pivoting is essential as a business owner and Beth's method of pivoting after the writer's strike and actor's strike

I KNOW you will love hearing this side of our industry and the ups and downs of set decorating and will see a lot of your own business model in this episode. After we're done, you'll also be recognizing her sets from all of your favorite tv shows and movies.

Find more about Beth here:
Website: https://www.bethkushnick.com/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/bethkushnick/
Beth's Podcast: Decorating the Set: From Hollywood to Your Home with Beth Kushnick: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/decorating-the-set-from-hollywood-to-your-home-with/id1519062454

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www.designbusinessfasttrack.com

For all things John: www.johnmcclain.co
For more information on my online Courses & Coaching Program for Interior Designers, visit: https://designsuccessacademy.com/
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Transcript

You are listening to the designer within podcast episode number 25. / 
I'm John McClain and welcome to the designer within podcast, the business minded podcast created for creative entrepreneurs by a creative entrepreneur. That's me. I know firsthand the challenges, but also the victories that can come with our careers. And I'm here to sip and spill the tea with you. It's time to dive deep within yourself and redesign your own business and your life from the inside out.
Together we will uncover secrets and share valuable insights. So prepare for a transformative experience, my friend, because it's time to unleash the designer within.
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Hey y'all how are you doing welcome to another episode of the podcast. We are on episode 25. So happy to have you here. You are in for a treat today. This is a fun, fun episode. I have invited my friend Beth Kuschnick onto the podcast today. And Beth is a 30 year veteran of the film and television and theater industry. 
She has been a set decorator on many shows and many movies that I know you're. We're going to recognize. And I have been lucky enough to have some of my products featured on her television shows from my own home furnishings line, which is how we met. But this episode is great because you're going to see a lot of parallels between what Beth is doing and her career and what you are probably doing in your own career as an interior designer. 
And if you are someone who is a homeowner listening to the episode, you're. Going to also hear a lot of tips that Beth has for designing your home and things that she brings into set decorating that has found their way into home design as well. But we're going to cover a lot of things in this episode, including the ups and downs of owning a business and running a business the recent strikes that Beth has had to endure. 
And all the people in the industry have had to endure and how she has overcome those. And we're going to discuss pivoting and how pivoting was such a pivotal part of what she has done to keep her business afloat during these strikes. And there are lots of, lots of lessons to learn in that for all of us right now in our own businesses and in our own careers. 
And we're going to have some fun, conversely. Conversations about fads and how she feels about that. She definitely has an opinion on that. 
And Beth is going to share with us why she never says no to anything. She always says, yes. I find this very interesting. 
As I said for over 35 years, Beth Kushnick has created character driven settings for some of the entertainment's most recognizable feature films and television series, including seven series as the set decorator on the award, winning hits, CBS drama, the good wife and the critically acclaimed spinoff. 
The good fight where by the way, you can find my products on the set. Other recent TV credits include two seasons of the period drama, bridge and tunnel on epics. Beth also continues to work as an interior designer for celebrity clients. Her approachable. 
Yes. Sophisticated style has resonated deeply with audiences leading her to become a pioneer in her field. Bringing set decoration to the mainstream. She became the first set decorator to have a home decor licensing deal, the first set decorator to have her own blog and the first set decorator to have her own podcast decorating the set from Hollywood to your home with Beth Kushnick.
Beth is a native new Yorker and a hall of fame, inductee of the set decorator society of America. 
And I know you're going to love this episode so sit back and enjoy my conversation with my friend, Beth.
Hi, Beth, welcome so much to the designer within podcast. I'm so glad to be with you today. This is going to be a fun conversation because it's very rare that we get this insight to the other side of our industry for designers. And there is this entire other side of our industry.
and I want everybody to be. Listening to you today because you have such a great insight to that. And we're going to dive deeper into that, but they've heard my bio about yourself. Can you let everybody know, in your own words, who you are, what you've done? What your past is, how you've gotten to where you are and sort of what you do now in your, in your career.
Sure. I've been a set decorator for TV and film for a long time now, over 30 years. I started in the theater. I worked on the original production of Little Shop of Horrors and I sort of fell into film and television. After studying set design and, and theater design I've worked on every different type of show, different periods, different styles mostly all in New York where I am from and grew up I'm an East coast set decorator.
And done a little bit of location work in the South. And Now I'm sort of, at a new part of my career, I think, because mostly the business has changed so much in the last 10 years, lots of things going on. We're just getting through a prolonged strike of SAG AFTRA and the Writer's Guild, and I'm sort of curious myself to see how it all comes back.
I have a feeling it's going to be a little bit of a different. Industry, but I'm glad I'm not starting now. I'm glad it's later on in my career all this new AI and, and things to contend with, I'm experienced and used to a different time when there were no cell phones and no modern luxuries.
And we sort of. crafted everything with our hands. So, that's, that's the way I like to do it. the old fashioned way and not really in front of a computer. Oh, wow. I love that. Well, and even for a lot of us designers, we did it the old fashioned way. I remember hand drafting in design school.
That was what I, and I loved it. and when they were bringing CAD around towards the end of my time in school, I was like I don't like that. I don't like what I wanted to do. Cause I, yeah, I, I, I don't like it as a decorator because inevitably. No matter how good a set designer you have, the measurements don't seem to measure up, between, between the CAD drawing and the construction department and the scenic department building a set, by the time I get it, I'm just like a hair shy of that end table fitting.
On either side of the bed, I love the days when it was all done by hand and turned out right and nothing replicates holding that measuring tape in your hand. Does Well, that's a big difference in the industry on a whole. I think The whole concept of scale has changed so much with, how people do things.
So, I really encourage everyone to, have a little tape measure with them when they go shopping and, and do it for real. Oh, I totally, totally agree with that. Definitely. And, you've had, like you said, a very varied past. I mean, from theater to commercial work to movies and television, and you and I actually met and became friends when you purchased furniture from my home furnishings line for one of your shows.
And I had, had had some of my products on different shows before, but I will tell you, Beth, what really struck me about your. Your set designs and the aesthetics was, and I'm sure you've heard this before, is that I felt like I could live in them. I could walk into your set designs and call it home.
Is that something that is a goal of yours when you were designing sets for, for your movies and TV shows and commercials? It's always been a goal of my set decoration to really. create character. And as a set decorator, my job is to create a character's backstory. And even if you don't see what lives in their refrigerator or in their kitchen cabinets or in their bedside table, I am obsessed with those details and with myself and production designer collaboration, we sit and craft their economic status and what the backstory is on where they live and how they live and what.
maYbe even personal objects that have traveled through their life. It's, it's very similar to how I approach interior design with private clients. I'm not really a decorator who wants to come in and just remove everybody's character and do something in just an individual style. I'm, I'm sort of a.
Take it and put it all together, considering everything, considering a full life. And on screen, it's really important for authenticity. Yeah, that is truly an intersecting part of home design for clients, for residential clients, and for your career, for your job as a set decorator.
And, and before we. go into deeper questions. Tell me what what is the difference? What is the defining difference between a set decorator and a set designer because you're calling yourself? Of course a set decorator, but some people may be used to the term set designer. So what would be the difference between those two?
Primarily used in theater so in film and television on a crew list at the Academy Awards, at the Emmy Awards for television. You're classified as a production designer, and then there's the set decorator. So as the set decorator, I'm the head of the department and I have working for me.
Assistant set decorators and a lead man and set dressers all of which come with me, to every location and every set. And in a way we strip everything down when we're shooting on a location and add the Proper elements. And it's, it's sort of like going into somebody's home.
I, in a way it's, it's almost more akin to staging, which is something that I've been doing lately during the strikes, taking out and then adding back and creating a new look based on a character or what you want people to see, where do you want to draw their eye? So, depending on the period depending on the character, depending on their socioeconomic class, we create Thanks The story that, that helps the script script is more important than anything, but we, we support the script.
Wow. That is really interesting. I mean, I, again, I'm just seeing these parallels between, as you're speaking between residential design and set decorating, because you are truly. Honing in on who that character is and their backstory. And as you say, how they live. And then we, and we do the exact same thing with our clients.
Where do you, where do you shop? What type of products do you like to use in your bathroom? where do you go on vacation? All these things that we ask our own clients. I find that so interesting. Absolutely. Same background story. Yeah. Do you spend most of your time? in your residence at night, if you're out during the day working with COVID that changed so much with our private clients, right?
how do we even give them a space in their home that's a workspace? So, the lexicon has changed. Even, a script has changed and affected by that, where, it's not so odd to see someone working in their home now, because everybody does. So, there are threads woven through all the aspects of what I do, whether I'm staging an apartment, doing interior design.
Doing a set. The only thing that's a little different is when you're creating a set from the ground up. I'm literally, think of every little item, every piece of hardware, every switch plate, every fabric, every need. To make that set look authentic. Now, are you given a in that case and in the other cases as well?
For your private clients, of course, you're walking into their home. Here is their home. Here are the four walls. Here is the ceiling. Here is the floor. We know the dimensions. Are you given those dimensions always with a set before you can decorate it? Or do you have some sort of ability to vary that and say, Oh, I really need this to be larger because I want this room to have, two sofas and there's only room For one, can you change that?
Both the production designer and myself and sometimes even the, the project dictates how many sets we're going to build, what kind of stage space we have if one said it's going to be transformed into another set, you shoot out one and in television. We, we are always taking, snippets of other sets and turning them into something new.
So with the production designer, I collaborate and provide the wallpaper. If we're going to do wallpaper, provide the flooring, so I do a little bit more than it is a very much an interior designer and architect type of relationship, the set decorator and production designer, sometimes provide more and, on TV sets, when stage space is at a premium I'm always asking for a little bit more room to to get those bedside tables in or something. we use walls a lot. And we work quickly. So sometimes you, you have to take what you get, I'm known for having my initial freak out and, just saying, Oh, this is not going to work. This is not going to work, and the production designer that I worked with for many years would, would always expect that phone call from me. And he'd say, Go back and see what you can do.
And, and, and that's all I needed to hear, just a little encouragement and, and I had it going. So it's it's, it's a process, the process, and it involves a lot, a lot more people. On set than it does, for a private home. I have my relationships with contractors and stuff, but on the set, it's, you have to take everyone's issues into consideration and, and then you get to do your work.
Interesting. So do you have a. set of processes that you follow for your residential clients as well. When you're designing their homes. and if you do have those, are they really in alignment with your set decorating processes? I I'm known for my quick turnaround and I operate sort of the same way. my vendors are vendors that are used to working quickly. So I I use them maybe in different ways, I have even in the height of COVID when nothing was available, I've even purchased, furniture from an outlet that I probably never would have bought and had it completely Recovered and reupholstered and made new, overnight 
so, I use many tricks of the trade when I'm doing a private client. That is awesome. And do you, we have to do presentations. We have to prepare things to show for our private clients. Is there this presentation? that you would have for your own set decorating as well.
Or are you the final. Say so for, yes, this is what I want. This is the way it's going to be kind of a thing. Or is there another power that be that would say, okay, no, we're going to tweak this and then change it a bit. I'm lucky in that. I don't have a incredible amount of, overseeing done, but we do.
Let's say we're starting a television show and you're, presenting the main characters for the first time. We very often do a PowerPoint presentation to the studio to bring them up to speed on the locations that we're going to shoot in the sets we're building, the tones, the style, so for that We try, we try to get through those quickly because many times it's very hard for people in those positions to visualize what we're talking about.
So, even when I'm Much like the client. Yes, even when I'm working with, with clients who are in the film industry, I'm, stunned by the lack of strictly, spatial visualization, or, I, I put a tape measure down in the living room and say, Sofa's going to start here and it's going to end here.
And, and I've been told. Beth, I'm not really seeing it. Now that becomes a more I think, more of a relationship where I have to. Use other means, not, not logic, not a tape measure, but, but almost a way to take them on their own journey with me. So, it's, it's it's really character development, all the way around, both on the, the, within the script, the actors directors, producers, and I find that, since decor is something that's become so accessible to people.
Everyone sort of has this idea, it's easy, that they can just, do it easily take what's shown, by a vendor and by a whole suite of furniture, just order a sofa and they don't really have the visual understanding of scale and space and what they're getting themselves into.
Totally. And, I'm now of the emotional side of it, too. So, we have clients, of course, who come into their homes and they see the rooms and they say things such as Wow, you really got me and you, I, you understood what I was asking for.
You got the direction. Do you have actors who perhaps say the same thing when they see a set? Like, wow, this really is the character. This helps me develop the character further to see these things. I do. And, I I'll tell you that is as fulfilling as, when, when the crew walks in. And it's stunned, when people in.
my Own industry walk in and, and have, their mouths are hanging open at a particular set. that's like my barometer, because most of them are jaded and It's really, that's, that's the highest compliment. But yes, I have had many actors, done many actors homes in not only New York, but all over the world.
I also do a lot of work without going to see the actual house. I think that's something that I just picked up from my capability of working on location and, doing things from, from pictures. So I, I do it from photos a lot. Interesting. And set decorating is, I think it's very influential for the people who are watching and the furniture and the choices that you are making. What have you heard over your long, wonderful career from people who are either trying to maybe mimic what they see or trying to buy the same products. And then I know that has led you into a foray of having your own product line from that.
But how influential is set decorating for the viewer? With the onset of really the internet and, myself being someone who could be contacted, for so many years, I was strictly a behind the scenes person and starting with the good wife and good fight and other shows that I did became this way to interact with fans.
In those days there were so many. Fan letters coming for the set that it was its own character. And in those days I did a blog giving retail sources for all the things that we shopped for. And that wonderfully turned into the first home decor line in TV history, which I collaborated with Mitchell Gold Bob Williams on.
And interestingly enough, as much as people liked the character and the furniture the most, most of the furniture was sold in in other fabrics just because it was really a well designed sofa, chair, piece of furniture. So, It's been a big learning experience. I've had my own line with IMAX Worldwide Home, and my sort of go to items for sets that you could use for any character and any kind of style.
So, I'd love to get back to some of that. Both companies, unfortunately, are no longer. And that's certainly a sign of the times. But it, it was an incredible learning experience in manufacturing and development and design. Oh, I can say from having my own home furnishings line, that is its own animal.
That is its own entity. That is its own business structure. It is its own set of problems and issues and all the things, but I'm sure as you said, you took a lot away from that and learned about a lot of what to do and a lot of what not to do. But I just want to congratulate you on that because the lines were stunning and beautiful.
And I do feel that they work so well and clients homes and then personal homes and everything. So they were stunning. So call Beth people. If you want, if you need a new product line, call her. I am so ready because I, I, I don't believe in fads and trends, that is something that within my set decorating, I even recall I, I, I did Howard Stern's private parts and it was, it was a great experience, but I, I started that job late and they had already.
Acquired some very bad set decoration and I walked into the set dressing shop and, and I said, okay, everything with a smiley face on, on it, get rid of, cause we're never going to use it. And, it's it's something that I subscribe to because I don't. See it in really good character work, trends that I see in decor now Everywhere everywhere at all different levels, but you can spot them everywhere every kitchen and bathroom and you know the same big mirror and These things that just drive me crazy I would like to, do a line of classics, things that could fit into any style.
So thank you for that. No, I agree. And I, and I've, I've, I have the same philosophy when it comes to designing products and designing homes, because you want longevity and I'm with you. I can open up a magazine and I can say. Yep, that will be gone in less than five years. And everyone who buys it is going to waste their money on it.
Everyone wants to design their kitchen with the same thing. And, I just, I, I say this to all my friends, even you're going to get sick of it. It's not going to have resale value. Everyone who looks at it is going to say, I just saw that, and, and I'm all for giving like new visual references, not that anything is an original idea, everything is derivative in some way, but But navy blue cabinets have got to go.
Beth has put her foot down on navy blue. It's my favorite color, but I just, it makes it all look the same. I think you get on a point there is that, when you were saying you went to a set and you saw things that you were like, no, this is not going to happen. Not on my watch.
Right. Probably with, with your line of work as separate from your clients with, as a set decorator, people are contacting you because of your specific aesthetic, because of the way that you work, because of the way that you run your company, much the same as probably your private clients contact you as well, I would think, yes.
And I love, I love that having, you sort of have a stamp of we all have our signature looks in a way, quote unquote, and I use that term loosely because. I feel like if you're really a good designer, you can design it in a lot of different, genres and styles, but there is a underlying tone of yourself that kind of weaves its way through all of those.
But I'm sure people contact you. Especially after years. Yes. It's consistent. I mean, your, your furniture that you designed had a look, and the reason why it worked so well on set was because it was, very sharp and very strong and, it stood on its own. And, and that's, that's really what I'm saying is like, you see these pieces and just everything starts to meld together, and, and you can't help direct someone's eye.
To have like a pleasing visual, because it's just here we go again, in their mind, they know they've seen it before. And I think there is a a brain part of that, I think it's, it's about the messaging too. And it's also about, Oh, my neighbor has this. So I should probably do the same thing.
Or if this is on every, home renovation show, I should probably put this in my house versus what do I really want or. what do I see is going to have long life to it? Or what is my designer telling me is going to be timeless and classic and long lasting because we know, as you said, we know, and most designers worth their salt will know.
By looking at something that it's trendy. and I've told clients I've had them fight with me before. Like, okay, okay, all right, here we go. Okay. Yep. You know what? You're going to change this in three years, but I can't see it from my house. So go ahead and put it in your house now and you will, we will change it later.
So it always happens, but there's always those one things where they're like, no, no, no, no, no. Well, I could, I could probably rattle off and I'm sure you as well, like 10 things that were like, nope, we'll see these gone very soon. Yeah. And some of them I'm like, good riddance, well, I think it's also since I'm so used to character development, my aesthetic is there, but I'm not attached to anything in a way, I have to, I have to go from job to job.
I mean, like I did my first horror movie last year, Insidious. A horror client or a horror movie? No, horror movie. And it was incredible. It was the most popular horror movie of the year. Directed by Patrick Wilson Insidious 5, and it taught me, even after all these years, a whole different genre and a different look.
And I think that, it doesn't matter what character. I remember for an interior design project, I had a client whose favorite colors were butterscotch and purple. deep eggplant and, not my cup of tea, but I, I made it work. And, and that was the thrill of the job was like playing up their character and giving them what they wanted to live in.
I could never live in that and look at it every day, but they loved it. So, It's, it's truly about character and not falling into this trap of. I think in the last, I don't know, five years or ten years, it's, it's just mass manufacturing of, of the same grayish colors and the same concepts, I, I wish people would rally against all of that.
And, do something original or, or at least a little different. Yeah. We've, we tend to, dilute it and, and water it down sometimes with our clients ask for that, I should say. And it is, it is, it's sad I'm really big on emphasizing the creative part of being a designer, and the creative part of, doing what we love and loving what we do.
And, and sometimes clients just want to jump to, the plan of installing everything and it's like, no, we love designing. We love being creative. So let us be creatives right now, because that is truly going to give you a better project, a better home, a better living room, kitchen, whatever we're designing, because you've given us that space to really be ourselves.
Yeah. With one private client in particular that I've had such a successful collaboration, I think in, in a positive. Looking at so much visual information and everything that's so available on, on Instagram and everywhere, I, I have discovered in the last year, all different kinds of, smaller.
creative artists, whether it's lighting, fixtures, or paintings art pieces that have just come through my feed, because I'm just always searching for things and, and interested in hearing from anyone about their work. And I've just had like a string of. unbelievable experiences of finding the perfect unusual, out of the box item, whether it was a chandelier or a sculptural piece of art.
and it's been thrilling, just so exciting to present it to a client. And, and then see it in their home, it's just been great. So I feel like I'm, I'm starting to gather even more sort of like new, younger, independent artists as artisans really as sources. it.
Well, I think what you're seeing in those as. probably things that you value and that you appreciate. You're seeing, ingenuity and creativity on a different level versus just, as you said, the same things. And it's, it's things that you recognize and you appreciate and you value and you want to use them and you want to spread the word about them.
And I'm the same way. I feel exactly the same when I find something so unique. I almost burst open wanting to show it to a client, right? I know. Excited about it. Like, you won't believe what we found. And then you feel like the hero. I know. And I'm like, I don't know how it happened. It just came in my feet at two o'clock in the morning.
And I just said, this is unbelievable. Every single one of those creators have just been the most genuine, wonderful people that I, I feel like I'm fostering. great art, it's, it's been so much fun. It's the one time when that algorithm is actually helping us out. Is it on? Whatever, whatever I've been searching for big brother is, is, honoring me with good stuff, 
okay. So the one time big brother actually. helps. Good. Okay. I have a question on choosing the products, when you're choosing things for your clients and when we're all as designers choosing products for our clients, we think about durability, we think about longevity, we think about, how it's going to hold up, are there kids in the home, that sort of thing.
Do any of those have to cross your mind when you're set decorating? Or do you just mainly look at aesthetics for decorating the sets? I'm just curious. No yeah. I do think about them in specific when let's say it's something scripted, someone's gonna shove all the paperwork off that desk, when it's a part of one character in particular, Alan Cumming had a, an office in The Good Fight where You know, it was a teeny tiny office and you opened the door and it slammed into the desk every time, so I had to really consider what that piece of furniture was going to be.
And, many times I have to think about multiples and the details of stunts and special effects and those kinds of things when I'm. Just, decorating a run of the mill set. I don't think about those things. I usually think more about budget than longevity. Although I hold my crew.
to a very high standard and one of their main jobs is maintaining the sets. So, we take offense when the crew lies down on the sofa at lunchtime and, we, we have photos, we have photos of those people, and they go to, set jail It's, I, I mean, I'm always walking around getting the director's coffee off the, conference table and, saying, Hey.
I only got one of these, I'm not getting another one overnight. So, sometimes, sometimes it's hard not to take that personally. but it's funny because I'd say that like, a console table or a chest or some piece that, I've stuck in the corner.
of a set, maybe behind a table, some of these things have stayed on set for like, 200 episodes. So, they've, they've lasted. I, I do a very kind of high, low. in both, with both my private clients and on set, I I do the upholstery in a, in a mid range, I mean, it depends on the client, but everything I do is a mix.
Yeah, me too. I love that. That's that, that is an exact. duplication, I think, and what most designers do in clients homes. I love that you bring that into your set decorating. were, and you do, I would notice like for the tables that you purchased from my company, for instance, I was like, wow, okay, they're in this season and oh gosh, they're back next season.
And then here they are next season. And it was like, wow. Okay. they had some legs to them. And I love that there was continuity, From the viewers perspective is what I was really enjoying from that. It was like, wow, okay, this company on the show, on the good fight changed offices, but there is continuity to the way that everything looked on the, yes, there was a level of aesthetic that had to be maintained, kind of.
That whole show, was known for that level, whether it was serving coffee and bagels, all the floral arrangements, everything was thought about at that level, unlike, let's say, Chris and everybody, know, this horror movie, but that had a certain aesthetic to it that was established and I kept up throughout, that's part of, being consistent with the character, with all the characters. we were talking about things that you could take away from your set decorating, and if you are listening, have not seen The Good Fight, it's, I believe it's on CBS, still, right? You can find all of the episodes on the, on the streaming service, if I'm not mistaken. Yeah.
it is, first of all, a great show. And second of all, it is beautiful. it is aesthetically beautiful, I love every single set that you decorated there because I would look at that and say, I could put that color in my home. I gotta find that mirror.
Where is it? So I just, I took lots of inspiration as an interior designer from what you did. It's very attainable, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's, everyone thinks it's aspirational, but it's very attainable. and I shop in all the places that you shop, I, I, I shop, big box stores and I shop online and I shop in, every one of the mill stores, I just may put it together in a different way. than the average person. And, it's partly that. And I really have come to rely on. Certain fabric vendors and certain paint colors. And, I've been doing this for long enough to really feel like I know what works, although I'm, I'm thrilled to, keep thinking and, and seeing new stuff.
Well, I might have to give you a call soon offline, because actually my Gilded Homeline is coming back in 2024. So maybe we can partner together on that. So I'll have to ask you this too and kind of changing avenues here with the recent strikes of, of course, as you mentioned with first the, the writers and then now the actors, and that's still not completely, back up in operation.
I know it's put a, of course, a hold on some of the productions as well as I know some were probably canceled, I'm sure completely, but Pivoting. It's something that I always preach to my students and my programs. And as business owners, we do it all the time. I feel when in different situations, how do you feel that you pivot after a situation that happened like what you're experiencing now?
And, did it affect your, your revenue? And then what kind of markers were you looking at to say, okay, now it's the time to do. X, Y, and Z, because this has happened. Was there any sort of, moment where you were like, okay, now it's time to officially pivot into something different?
Well, I can honestly tell you it is never in all my years in the business been like this year. I, I feel, I feel like I'm just starting out, but I. I recently gave myself until a particular month, to see the return of work. Otherwise, I was deciding to completely pivot. And and as I, I kept telling myself that I actually just got booked on a job, so
Oh, yay. So they're not ready to, to, end it for me yet. But nope. I, I think, you know what I subscribe to and have always subscribed to, I am basically a freelance worker and, Mm-Hmm. , I, I've been that my whole career, my whole life, and. So, I mentioned this to you before, I say yes to everything.
And I, I find that even if I'm overbooked things drop out, things change, I, go have a meeting for had a meeting for a private client and. Last week. And I thought that it was going to start this week. The contractor and I went over there and we were, I said, I don't even know if I can get the paint in time and this and that, well, they're not ready to do the apartment until March.
It was just that one little detail that wasn't shared with me. So, everything went into high gear and then it went back into low gear. And it's really okay. So I. I say yes to anything that is offered to me. I consider myself a designer. I've been asked and done corporate offices.
I've done backgrounds for people's Zooms. I've designed a pediatrician's office, a restaurant private clients homes all over the world. And movies, TV I've had studios call me and ask me to design New Year's Eve parties for their, biggest of big wigs. So, I just, I say I'm available and, I just, I just roll with it.
And But this, this period, these strikes have really devastated a lot of people. We're, we're collateral damage. The crew, the Teamsters, the vendors, we didn't get any help from the Actors Fund or from big actors raising money for, SAG AFTRA. So, imagine, you're going along in your career and, one day you're working and the next day you're out of work for almost a year.
And that's what it's been for many people. So I don't, I don't know how the business is going to come back. I think there's, a microscope on all of it, on all the Executives and a lot of projects have been canceled. A lot of seasons have been shortened. And I think it's going to take some time to settle out into what's going to be sort of the new world.
Streaming. And all of it. It's, it's not a great time to start in this business. It's a, it's a big commitment. It's a hard life. Very hard life. especially, you mentioned your independent contractor, And if you think about most business owners, we all are in that aspect and we all are.
In, in control, in less control, I should say, of our, of our future because of different things that happen in the world and different things that happen in society. So yeah, it's all about, as you said, pivoting and figuring out what to do next. And I was recently at a conference and with Luanne Nigara and she was, had a, a speaker on Sarah Lynn Brennan, and she said something that everybody was just sort of like.
Wow, that's so smart. And I think it was so smart, too. She said, don't quit. Just rest. And I thought, Wow, that makes a lot of sense, right? So just just take a break. Just take a minute to regroup yourself to sort of, come back to what you know. And I feel like The people who truly do bring value to the world and to projects to businesses We'll find their footing eventually, but I can see your point. And then we're recording this in December of 2023. And I don't know when everyone's listening to this, right? So it would be nice to do a nice. Happy follow up down the road. If you've gotten any companies to agree to start my new product line by 2024, that's what we can be talking about.
That, that quote is, so right on because it's not only rest, it's, it's your, your mind, Look, I've been doing this for many, many years. I'm identified by it. I'm, I'm known for it. It's a scary thing to think that it's not going to go on anymore or that it might take shape in a different form.
So I think rest has a lot of meaning. Just making that decision putting it off and saying, I'm going to give myself three more months and if the business is not back, I'm, I'm doing another pivot that immediately let me rest from the anxiety of it. That was it. Wow, that's beautifully, very well said.
Yeah, you're resting not only your body, you're resting your mind, which, which I find, which is more exhausting than any, any, any manual labor. Is it the labor that I do? Yes, exactly. Resting my eyes, resting my mind. Yeah. Turning off Instagram at two in the morning, Beth. Yep. Do you Do you I'm just from a business perspective.
Do you keep your design client business separately from your set decorating business? Or do you sort of lump it all together under one entity? I'm always curious about how people stack their different companies because we have a lot of different revenue streams within my company.
But we have them all under the same umbrella. Always curious about well, as a set decorator, I work in a union, so I, it's, it's not even my company, I'm just a set decorator who works in a union and I have my. Benefits, when I work, that's another scary part of the whole strike process is how this decimated everyone's health insurance and their benefits because our days of work equal to our coverage.
So it's been, been really a tough situation. But. My private clients are totally separate. I mean, the, the good thing is that in terms of me saying yes to the 10 jobs at once or whatever comes my way is, I have people who I work with. As assistants on movies and TV, I have different people who I work with when I'm doing staging, I have different people who I work with when I'm doing private clients.
So, it's it's great the more I take on, the more people I can employ and the more I can use my vendors, which that's the most important thing to me now because we were losing them. We're losing them because of the film business, black business, we're losing them, just in general because they're being bought by private equity companies and then, going away.
So I got to keep my vendors going. I'm with you. It's a network of help and a network of people. When you really think about it, we have all of our vendors and then you have all the trades people even down you were saying so you have the sofa, but then you have the fabric company who you buy the fabric from for the sofa.
So the netting of this, is so interconnected with everybody and And as you said, when one person is affected, it does affect everyone else. And it's kind of sad in that way. And we have to figure out. I think how to begin to, as you're saying, lift each other up and start to get back into it and really, have that camaraderie and understand that we're not separate in all of this.
you might do set decorating as your primary career, but we're all in this same genre together, right? We're all in the same boat, paddling as hard as we can. And I, I really subscribe to, I, I don't care if, I can find an antique in some little shop, two hours away and, and a vendor here.
Close has it, I'm going to send my truck, my, my teamster drivers, I'm going to send them to the place that's convenient. I'm going to think logically. And this is something that is also very important to me because It takes a village. I mean, when you're working on a TV show or a movie, I mean, the, the amount of people that it takes to, to execute the vision is, is massive.
And you have to consider all of those people and what's the right thing. So I think, people should really think about their vendors. At a time like this with the economy and strikes and everything going on and do what you can, to I'm doing anything I can to throw them work and keep them alive.
I'm with you and support those who support you. If you have someone who is loyal to you, be loyal to them and purchase from them. And if you have a woodworker who, you love and the quality is great, for instance, use that woodworker. And if that woodworker puts you ahead of other clients, then that's the reciprocal thing, so it's, it's, it's a give and take it truly. Truly is. So you've had this it's anywhere far from over, but you've had this massive 30 year career. What has been the most surprising thing that you might have learned about yourself as a set decorator and just as a designer in general over all of these 30 years?
I always find this question interesting to you. Sort of retrospectively look back on our lives and say, what, what have I learned? And I know life is full of surprises, but has there been one thing that has surprised you that you've learned about yourself that maybe you didn't know about yourself when you first started this endeavor?
I don't know if it's, I think it's been learned through experience, but it's still it's, it's a hard thing to describe. That I find whatever job it is, whether it's a private client or a set, the unconsciousness of my choices, start to, like, live and breathe together, whether it's a repetitive pattern that I wasn't thinking of in, in conceiving it, Or just something in a similar palette that, that works, it's that I guess it's really to continue to trust my instinct and sort of, that it's inside me, it's in my DNA, and no matter how long goes in between jobs, I know what I'm doing that makes it all sort of sing.
And when it does, it, it still surprises me, but I, I should trust it a little bit more. And, that's, that's part of the thrill because it keeps, keeps you so happy, when you, when you accomplish that. That's so beautifully said. Yeah, I think we all surprise ourselves sometimes when we finish a project and you just look, like, I mean, like, we hung this piece of art and, and I, I looked out at the view and there was like similarities in the piece of art that was facing the building out the window.
It's just synchronicity that starts to develop that is like magic. it's great. it's almost like a subconscious level of designing in a way and you do it and then you get done , and then someone will say something like you're saying like, Oh, you probably chose that because of that view out the window.
And you're like, Oh, I guess I did. And it was, it was like, yeah, I did. And you don't have to even hide behind the fact that you did that because you did choose it because you've honed your craft so well. And you've, you've, you've prepared yourself for So well to make those choices that you did choose that.
So What a what a great lesson. that is fantastic. And I feel the exact same way And so beautifully put from your end of things. So thank you for sharing that. Well, Beth, this has been a pleasure. Oh my gosh, I know my listeners have loved it. I've loved it.
I've loved learning more about what you're doing, what your plans are. Tell everybody All the good stuff. Where can they find you? How can potential clients reach out to you? All that stuff. They can find me on Instagram at Beth Kushnick, K U S H N I C K. They can find my website, www. bethkushnick. Dot com and they can listen to season five of my podcast when we come back and have you as a guest decorating the set from Hollywood to your home, you can find it wherever you get your podcasts and enjoy all of it.
And through my website, you can email me and contact me for anything. I'm telling you guys, look into all of her gorgeous work. When you see it, you're going to say, Oh yes, I've seen that. Oh yes. That looks familiar because it is. It's sort of ingrained in you. When you see it, you're going to love it.
Beth, this has been so wonderful. Thank you for sharing your knowledge, your experience, your vision, your insight. And I just wish you all good things always. Thank you. 
Thanks for sticking with me to the end of the designer within podcast. It means the world to me, if you're ready to dive deeper into the topics that we've discussed here, 
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